Take Back Our Country

[Sparko]

Seer, dismissing anyone who disagrees with you as "tainted by sin" is not an argument.

That's exactly what someone who is tainted by sin would say.

[seer]

Seer, dismissing anyone who disagrees with you as "tainted by sin" is not an argument. When you cannot deal with the arguments (as you have failed to do now for hundreds of posts on morality), clinging to the beliefs is simply not justified. At least, that's the way I try to live: believe what I find adequate evidence for, dismiss what I find adequate evidence against, and make no judgment on what I do not have adequate evidence for or against. It is the way I believe we all should live. Seems fairly self-evident to me - but (of course) I won't be able to "prove" it to you.

Carp, see you are equally dismissing what I believe. I really do believe that your rational abilities are tainted by sin, that is actually my worldview. If they weren't you would naturally see the Creator's hand in creation. You would naturally respond to your Maker. What men see as evidence, good evidence, how much weight they give, etc...is as personal and subjective as anything else. So when you speak of adequate evidence that claim has no validity. It is no more than an opinion, an opinion darkened by sin.

[carpedm9587]

Carp, see you are equally dismissing what I believe.

I always dismiss claims that are not adequately supported by evidence, Seer

I really do believe that your rational abilities are tainted by sin, that is actually my worldview.

You are entitled to your view. It doesn't make the view correct.

If they weren't you would naturally see the Creator's hand in creation. You would naturally respond to your Maker. What men see as evidence, good evidence, how much weight they give, etc...is as personal and subjective as anything else. So when you speak of adequate evidence that claim has no validity. It is no more than an opinion, an opinion darkened by sin.

And with that we're kind of back to the original statement I made. It is pointless to discuss with a person who thinks you are not rational. So...good stuff. Interesting exchange.

[seer]

That's exactly what someone who is tainted by sin would say.

[seer]

I always dismiss claims that are not adequately supported by evidence, Seer

Carp, do you have an objective standard for what constitutes evidence, or are your standards equally as relative as your ethics are?

[Mountain Man]

Carp, do you have an objective standard for what constitutes evidence, or are your standards equally as relative up as your ethics are?

Christian: How much evidence will it take to convince you that the gospel is true?
Skeptic: Just a little more than you have.

[seer]

Christian: How much evidence will it take to convince you that the gospel is true?
Skeptic: Just a little more than you have.

[carpedm9587]

Carp, do you have an objective standard for what constitutes evidence, or are your standards equally as relative as your ethics are?

Anything that supports the truth (or untruth) of a given proposition is "evidence," Seer.

[carpedm9587]

Christian: How much evidence will it take to convince you that the gospel is true?
Skeptic: Just a little more than you have.

As self-congratulatory as you two may be, the real exchange between a thoughtful non-Christian and Christian should be:

Christian: How much evidence will it take to convince you that the gospel is true?
Non-Christian: There is no answer to that question. It's a bit of a silly question.

[seer]

Anything that supports the truth (or untruth) of a given proposition is "evidence," Seer.

What is your objective standard for deciding what is a truism or not? Or are those standards equally as relative as your ethics are?

[carpedm9587]

What is your objective standard for deciding what is a truism or not? Or are those standards equally as relative as your ethics are?

A true statement is one that aligns with what is real, Seer. It's not really that complicated. So, if you say, "the car is blue," I can quickly determine if the car is actually blue by simply looking at it. If someone wants more evidence, I can take a light meter and measure the frequency of the reflected light.

Are you going somewhere with this...?

And why on earth would you continue to engage with an irrational person? That is not a particularly rational choice on your part.

[seer]

A true statement is one that aligns with what is real, Seer. It's not really that complicated. So, if you say, "the car is blue," I can quickly determine if the car is actually blue by simply looking at it. If someone wants more evidence, I can take a light meter and measure the frequency of the reflected light.

So your standard for deciding what is true is relative.

And why on earth would you continue to engage with an irrational person? That is not a particularly rational choice on your part.

Well I worked with the mentally handicapped for ten years, it's a hard habit to break.

[Sparko]

Anything that supports the truth (or untruth) of a given proposition is "evidence," Seer.

except examples, right?

[carpedm9587]

So your standard for deciding what is true is relative.

By definition, truth is the relationship between a statement/claim and its accuracy in reflecting reality. So of course it is relational. How could it be anything else? You have another way of defining what "truth" is an how it is determined?

Well I worked with the mentally handicapped for ten years, it's a hard habit to break.

I know what you mean... I used to work extensively with emotionally challenged youth. It's what posting around here sometimes feels like...

[carpedm9587]

except examples, right?

You are right, Sparko. The expression "an example is not an argument" is too absolute. It would be more accurate to say "an example is generally a very weak argument." If the claim is "X happens" and you provide an example of X, then the example is an adequate argument for the claim. If the claim is "X happens a lot," or "X is the norm" or "most people experience X," (which is usually what is being claimed), then an example is not adequate evidence to make that claim.