Marlon Bundo

[element771]

I have refrained from posting in civics but I am feeling spunky.

I saw the John Oliver skit and found it amusing. I don't particularly care for Pence and his opinions. I do not condone a homosexual life style but I don't judge them either. After all, why should I point out the splinter in my brothers eye while ignoring the plank in my own. It is simply none of my business. I know people who are homosexual Christians and my feeling is that that is between them and God. I am instructed to love them and that is what I do.

On the other hand, I don't think that Oliver should have necessarily target this book in particular. While I do find Pence objectionable, this book was written by his daughter (I believe she is 14). His daughter is not in politics and has not advocated for anything that Pence is being accused of. Plus, the proceeds from the book are going to a good cause. It is not fair for Oliver to target this kid's book. Go after Pence...I have no issues. The kid is not her father. She should be left alone.

I will go ahead and apologize for my nuanced opinion. Godspeed.

[Terraceth]

On the other hand, I don't think that Oliver should have necessarily target this book in particular. While I do find Pence objectionable, this book was written by his daughter (I believe she is 14). His daughter is not in politics and has not advocated for anything that Pence is being accused of. Plus, the proceeds from the book are going to a good cause. It is not fair for Oliver to target this kid's book. Go after Pence...I have no issues. The kid is not her father. She should be left alone.

I agree with this in general, though I should note that Charlotte Pence is around 24 years old.

[demi-conservative]

I saw the John Oliver skit and found it amusing. I don't particularly care for Pence and his opinions. I do not condone a homosexual life style but I don't judge them either. After all, why should I point out the splinter in my brothers eye while ignoring the plank in my own. It is simply none of my business. I know people who are homosexual Christians and my feeling is that that is between them and God. I am instructed to love them and that is what I do.

This sort of '''''''''''''''nuanced'''''''''''''''' opinion is how you have pride parades down streets, perverts being degenerate in full view of children.

[Mountain Man]

This sort of '''''''''''''''nuanced'''''''''''''''' opinion is how you have pride parades down streets, perverts being degenerate in full view of children.

Indeed. When it comes to sin, "live and let live" is not a standard you'll find in the Bible.

[seer]

Yes.

Why? Because you say so?

I don't do "what if's" like this one. They're a waste of time. You cannot establish that it is true, and I cannot establish that it is not.

The fact is, if you were born a hundred years ago most likely you would have had a completely different view. Which means your acceptance of this behavior is merely the result of timing and place of birth.

Birth rates are currently making Islam the fastest growing religion in the world, but Islam has essentially the same relationship to homosexuality that Christianity has: conservative Islamic groups speak as you do; more liberal Islamic groups are like more liberal Christian groups: they are turning away from that kind of bigotry. Islamic countries tend to be more conservative, so they fall in the latter group - and they can be extreme about it - even killing homosexuals. Fortunately most Christian groups have at least moved away from THAT practice.

Oh please, show me all these liberal Islamic groups, the growth in Islam is largely, if not totally, on the conservative side.

But the shift to accept the LGBTQ community is happening worldwide, though more in developed countries than religious and developing ones. Africa is way behind. The Middle East is way behind. Some parts of the far east are behind. South America has wide variation. North America, Europe, and Australia are well advanced, and the overall trend worldwide is encouraging.

Why is it encouraging? Because it agrees with you? And what do you mean "behind?" That they don't agree with you? Thin Carp, real thin...

[seer]

I have refrained from posting in civics but I am feeling spunky.

I saw the John Oliver skit and found it amusing. I don't particularly care for Pence and his opinions. I do not condone a homosexual life style but I don't judge them either. After all, why should I point out the splinter in my brothers eye while ignoring the plank in my own. It is simply none of my business. I know people who are homosexual Christians and my feeling is that that is between them and God. I am instructed to love them and that is what I do.

That makes no sense element. So you don't judge the rapist, the racist, the child molester? What do you mean by not judging?

[carpedm9587]

Save your pity for yourself.

"The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"

Your point of view is understood, MM. It is disagreed with. And the biblical quotes don't do a great deal for me.

[carpedm9587]

I have refrained from posting in civics but I am feeling spunky.

I saw the John Oliver skit and found it amusing. I don't particularly care for Pence and his opinions. I do not condone a homosexual life style but I don't judge them either. After all, why should I point out the splinter in my brothers eye while ignoring the plank in my own. It is simply none of my business. I know people who are homosexual Christians and my feeling is that that is between them and God. I am instructed to love them and that is what I do.

On the other hand, I don't think that Oliver should have necessarily target this book in particular. While I do find Pence objectionable, this book was written by his daughter (I believe she is 14). His daughter is not in politics and has not advocated for anything that Pence is being accused of. Plus, the proceeds from the book are going to a good cause. It is not fair for Oliver to target this kid's book. Go after Pence...I have no issues. The kid is not her father. She should be left alone.

I will go ahead and apologize for my nuanced opinion. Godspeed.

No need to apologize. Yours is one of the more enlightened positions that has been expressed here. You and I disagree on the morality of homosexuality, but your moral viewpoint is not as vitriolic as "degenerate sodomites." Indeed, it is not vitiolic at all.

As for the book - it is not my impression that Oliver "went after" the young daughter. And she is actually around 24 (Audrey is around 23). He used the opportunity of the book, which is indirectly about Mike Pence, from the perspective of the bunny, to make a statement about Mr. Pence's positions and moral code. Apparently, Charlotte was not too badly offended; she bought a copy of the book because of the cause it supports.

And he did provide us with a bit of a metric (albeit rough one at best) to see how this isssue is playing out in the public.

[Mountain Man]

And the biblical quotes don't do a great deal for me.

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

[carpedm9587]

Why? Because you say so?

Yes. Naturally I am speaking out of my subjective moral code.

The fact is, if you were born a hundred years ago most likely you would have had a completely different view. Which means your acceptance of this behavior is merely the result of timing and place of birth.

The fact is you have no knowledge of what my moral views wld have been - nor do I. So the argument is pointless. I'll leave you to your opinions.

Oh please, show me all these liberal Islamic groups, the growth in Islam is largely, if not totally, on the conservative side.

https://imaanlondon.wordpress.com/
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b02a4ebb76ea3d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-a...ligious_groups
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...iews/86046404/

As I noted - the groups tend to be more located in America, Canada, Audtralia, and Europe - and Islamic countries tend to be more conservative.

Why is it encouraging? Because it agrees with you?

Of course. We all tend to experience a sense of "progress" when social moral norms begin aligning to our own.

And what do you mean "behind?" That they don't agree with you? Thin Carp, real thin...

Partly, for the same reason we experience alignment as forward motion we see lack of alignment as "lagging behind." But also behind as measured against the general social trend.

[carpedm9587]

That makes no sense element. So you don't judge the rapist, the racist, the child molester? What do you mean by not judging?

The difference, of course, is that all of the people/acts you listed are people doing harm to other people. The homosexual is simly a person who has fallen in love with someone you don't think they should love - based on the nature of what exists between their legs - which is essentially no different than making that judgment on the basis of the color of their skin. In both cases, the judgment is being based on the basis of a physical trait.

It is bigotry, Seer. Nothing less. I understand the roots of this bigotry in history and religion, but that does not change it's nature. I don't hate you for it. I used to be angry about it, when that view held sway and there was more overt discrimination against these people. That is changing, and now I find myself more feeling sorry for people who can harbor such...beliefs (for lack of a better word).

[carpedm9587]

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Right...

I've noticed a great deal of "spirtual discernment" in your posts, MM...

[seer]

Yes. Naturally I am speaking out of my subjective moral code.

And that has moral weight why?

The fact is you have no knowledge of what my moral views wld have been - nor do I. So the argument is pointless. I'll leave you to your opinions.

You know I'm right, the fact is your "enlighten" moral view is merely the result of the timing and place of your birth.

https://imaanlondon.wordpress.com/
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b02a4ebb76ea3d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-a...ligious_groups
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...iews/86046404/

As I noted - the groups tend to be more located in America, Canada, Audtralia, and Europe - and Islamic countries tend to be more conservative.

Yeah, you are speaking of a small minority. And if the true Muslims got a hold of them they would throw them off buildings too...

Of course. We all tend to experience a sense of "progress" when social moral norms begin aligning to our own.

Right, but there really is no progress. It is like saying most/more people agreeing with me that brussel sprouts are horrible is progress...

Partly, for the same reason we experience alignment as forward motion we see lack of alignment as "lagging behind." But also behind as measured against the general social trend.

Whose general social trends? Like what we find in the Muslim world?

[Mountain Man]

Right...

I've noticed a great deal of "spirtual discernment" in your posts, MM...

The fact is that, unlike you, I am willing to recognize and acknowledge sin for what it is, so you have no moral standing from which to judge me.

And before you accuse me of hypocrisy, you should note that I have not judged you. I've merely quoted what the Word of God says about those who are spiritually blind and enamored by sin.

[seer]

The difference, of course, is that all of the people/acts you listed are people doing harm to other people. The homosexual is simly a person who has fallen in love with someone you don't think they should love - based on the nature of what exists between their legs - which is essentially no different than making that judgment on the basis of the color of their skin. In both cases, the judgment is being based on the basis of a physical trait.

Thank you sharing your opinion Carp... BTW - skin color is not behavior...

It is bigotry, Seer. Nothing less. I understand the roots of this bigotry in history and religion, but that does not change it's nature. I don't hate you for it. I used to be angry about it, when that view held sway and there was more overt discrimination against these people. That is changing, and now I find myself more feeling sorry for people who can harbor such...beliefs (for lack of a better word).

LOL, so now you are judging me on my religious beliefs! Bigots, sodomites - it's all the same. Who cares...