Florida School Shooting

[Sparko]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just give that answer in the first place. I'm simply trying to tease out what people think from what they post.

I think most people would just hide their guns.

[guacamole]

I agree, demonizing people who disagree with you is a very fun game.

[Adrift]

You won't get less homicides.

I obviously disagree. The entire reason I'm for a gun ban is to see less homicides and suicides. I have no other issue with guns or their use. I'm fine with hunting, and I think firing guns is enjoyable. But I think they're incredibly dangerous, and I think they're harming the citizens of this nation.

You will end up with more because criminals will have guns and law abiding citizens won't.

I don't agree. I think a total gun ban will make acquiring guns more than a little difficult for both, and that this will result in lower homicides and suicides.

And anyone who wants to commit suicide will find an alternate way.

Sure, but as I've gone over repeatedly in the other thread, most suicides are committed in the moment in the home. Guns kill people incredibly quickly, easily, and presumably relatively painlessly. Taking away the number 1 tool used in suicides in this nation should have the effect of lowering successful attempts. If it takes a person more time to think over what they're doing, or if it takes just that one more second for someone to walk into the room and prevent a successful suicide then I think it's worth it.

[Zymologist]

Sure it could. Worst case scenario you'd have to amend the constitution. Just like with guns.

I think this is a good point: Constitutionally, guns couldn't be taken away either.

[Adrift]

You really think that's the path a murderous housewife would take?

Yes.

[Adrift]

So you keep saying. But you are wrong.

Maybe. I don't think I am, and I hope not, but I suppose we'll see.

[Sparko]

Maybe. I don't think I am, and I hope not, but I suppose we'll see.

no I don't think we will. An outright ban on guns is pretty near impossible.

[Cow Poke]

We were discussing where the guns come from. I get the sense you've simply decided it doesn't matter where they come from.

It's not that I don't care - I'm just not convinced there's any hope that any legislation is going to make over 300 million guns just up and disappear.

Okay. Like I said, Chicago is such an important meme-argument for the pro-gun crowd that I didn't think it would matter.

OK

[Mountain Man]

You really think [acquiring a gun is] the path a murderous housewife would take?

Yes.

Well, of course you do, because that's the only scenario that supports your argument.

[Sparko]

It's not that I don't care - I'm just not convinced there's any hope that any legislation is going to make over 300 million guns just up and disappear.

So... Apparently criminals only use guns one time and then destroy them. That way they will eventually run out of guns and we will be free!

[Cow Poke]

Or anybody, really. Supply and demand and all that.

Cutting off the supply will increase the demand. Prices may rise, black markets grow...

[Mountain Man]

And in response to President Trump describing Cruz as a "sicko"...

Source: CNN

Diana Rose, a professor of user-led research who studies mental health at King's College London [...] said that calling the shooter a "sicko" is "insulting" and "mean-minded."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/22/healt...-bn/index.html

© Copyright Original Source

Yes, we mustn't insult mass-murderers.

[Adrift]

Well, of course you do, because that's the only scenario that supports your argument.

Well, no. It's backed with data provided here, https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvs03.pdf

[seer]

Yes, we mustn't insult mass-murderers.

You are so insensitive! Aren't you ashamed?

[guacamole]

This is useful to the discussion because it's worth pointing out that this applies to multiple sides in the discussion. People who suffer--and that's obviously not everyone-- beneath a regime of widespread and open access to firearms also have the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That is, the political philosophy that defends you defends them also. They have as much a right to try and ameliorate their situation to defend their rights as you do to yours.

That's what I was getting at with respect to Darth's idea that the absolute loss of gun rights, which I haven't argued, should lead to violence against the state and your fellow citizens. Then by that calculus, if this appeal to the Declaration of Independence is justification, then the people wronged by open access--those dying in the horrific public attacks, those living in fear of criminals, etc., have more justification to resort to violence now right against a state that, at best, wrings its hands and clutches at pearls of "hopes and prayers" and, at worst, ignores the suffering. That is a demonstrable loss of the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

fwiw,
guacamole