The Hypocrisy of Chuck Schumer

[Teallaura]

So let me get this straight... The Republicans have the POTUS, SCOTUS, House majority and Senate majority... but its the democrats fault that the government shut down?

Actually, yes. Remember that the same thing has happened with the Republicans as the minority party. Being the majority party doesn't (always, it can) give the power to run roughshod over the minority party. If that were so, Trump would have gotten more of his agenda earlier - and so would Obama (although he squandered a great deal of his advantage, the Republicans were successful in blocking some legislation and in slowing down others). House and Senate rules are complex - and only a 2/3rds majority is bulletproof (okay, except where a 3/5ths is needed but those are rare). A simple plurality gives control, but not the absolute kind.

[Teallaura]

Ok, this article isn't snopes or polifact but it says this claim is false: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...false-n2437246

According to Wiki's chart, and Fox's time line, it actually happened twice, both under Carter. It looks like there was a third under Clinton - just after losing the majority but before the new Congress was seated (technically, while the Democrats still held both chambers).

[Sparko]

Wow. A politician that changes his story when the shoe is on the other foot?

I'm reasonably sure there are NO examples of any other politician doing this. The man should be tarred and feathered.

Even more than that Here is Schumer on immigration then and now.

as well as Clinton and Obama.

The shutdown is apparently over DACA right? Well then why doesn't congress just make DACA legal? That is all Trump has been wanting. So the reason the government is shutdown is not really DACA, it is as a way to spurn Trump.

[carpedm9587]

Even more than that Here is Schumer on immigration then and now.

as well as Clinton and Obama.

I am not impressed. I could dig out the same kind of tribe about McConnell (the SCOTUS vote), Trump (MANY issues), Ryan, and pretty much ANY politician who was on one side of an argument when their circumstances changed (i.e., in the majority and then in the minority; not in office and then in office; runnning for office and then in office, etc.). Politicians reversing themselves and speaking out of both sides of their mouth traces back to Ancient Greece. I'm mostly surprised that anyone here appears to be surprised.

The shutdown is apparently over DACA right? Well then why doesn't congress just make DACA legal? That is all Trump has been wanting. So the reason the government is shutdown is not really DACA, it is as a way to spurn Trump.

As I understand it, every attempt to make DACA legal has hit a brick wall because Trump connects it to funding for his ridiculous wall. He agrees one moment on a plan, and then reverses himself the next. So far, no bill fixing the DACA problem has made it through the Republican majority or the threat of a Trump veto. Hence the current impasse.

Personally, I think the Dems are being foolish and may be squandering their 2018 opportunity. They should deal with the budget and immigration separately, and let Trump crap all over the Dreamers by refusing to agree to fund the wall. While it may hurt in the short run, the Dreamers are generally popular in the U.S. and the wall is not, so Trump and the Republicans would end up on the short end of that stick. Someone within the Dems is not a very good strategizer, IMO.

[Sparko]

I am not impressed. I could dig out the same kind of tribe about McConnell (the SCOTUS vote), Trump (MANY issues), Ryan, and pretty much ANY politician who was on one side of an argument when their circumstances changed (i.e., in the majority and then in the minority; not in office and then in office; runnning for office and then in office, etc.). Politicians reversing themselves and speaking out of both sides of their mouth traces back to Ancient Greece. I'm mostly surprised that anyone here appears to be surprised.



As I understand it, every attempt to make DACA legal has hit a brick wall because Trump connects it to funding for his ridiculous wall. He agrees one moment on a plan, and then reverses himself the next. So far, no bill fixing the DACA problem has made it through the Republican majority or the threat of a Trump veto. Hence the current impasse.

Personally, I think the Dems are being foolish and may be squandering their 2018 opportunity. They should deal with the budget and immigration separately, and let Trump crap all over the Dreamers by refusing to agree to fund the wall. While it may hurt in the short run, the Dreamers are generally popular in the U.S. and the wall is not, so Trump and the Republicans would end up on the short end of that stick. Someone within the Dems is not a very good strategizer, IMO.

I agree. Politicians love playing both sides of an issue, changing sides when it suits them. What that shows me is that the democrats really don't care about immigration or DACA. They are just using that as a hammer against Trump. If Trump were all for open borders and DACA the democrats would be against it.

[carpedm9587]

I agree. Politicians love playing both sides of an issue, changing sides when it suits them. What that shows me is that the democrats really don't care about immigration or DACA. They are just using that as a hammer against Trump.

It shows nothing of the kind. It simply shows that politicians can and regularly do speak out of both sides of their mouth. The fact that McConnell did (with SCOTUS) exactly what he railed at Democrats for doing doesn't tell me "McConnell doesn't really care about SCOTUS, he just wanted to stick it to Democrats." It simply tells me McConnell will say what he thinks/feels at the time without regard for what he's previously said. Same for the Democrats.

If Trump were all for open borders and DACA the democrats would be against it.

I find these kinds of statements laregely useless. You're just fluffing your agenda. You say they would, I say they wouldn't, and neither of us can even begin to prove the case. It's pointless.

[Sparko]

The shutdown is over:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/u...-shutdown.html

[Sparko]

It shows nothing of the kind. It simply shows that politicians can and regularly do speak out of both sides of their mouth. The fact that McConnell did (with SCOTUS) exactly what he railed at Democrats for doing doesn't tell me "McConnell doesn't really care about SCOTUS, he just wanted to stick it to Democrats." It simply tells me McConnell will say what he thinks/feels at the time without regard for what he's previously said. Same for the Democrats.

The fact that Schumer and Clinton and Obama all were saying that immigration law is important and DACA needs to be handled with law and not executive orders previously and NOW Shumer is saying the opposite does exactly that: show that he doesn't care about DACA or immigration law. He is just using it as a hammer against Trump.

I find these kinds of statements laregely useless. You're just fluffing your agenda. You say they would, I say they wouldn't, and neither of us can even begin to prove the case. It's pointless.

And I find your dismissals of what I say largely useless also.

[rogue06]

The shutdown is over:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/u...-shutdown.html

Apparently they realized they were pissing off their base by tossing them aside in favor of illegal immigrants

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Schumer is complaining that Trump didn't talk with him since the two met at the White House before the shutdown. But that's pretty much Sales 101. After you made your pitch, shut up. The first one to start talking afterwards generally loses.

[carpedm9587]

The fact that Schumer and Clinton and Obama all were saying that immigration law is important and DACA needs to be handled with law and not executive orders previously and NOW Shumer is saying the opposite does exactly that: show that he doesn't care about DACA or immigration law. He is just using it as a hammer against Trump.

As you wish, Sparko. It doesn't say those things to me.

And I find your dismissals of what I say largely useless also.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything...

[Mountain Man]

Schumer is complaining that Trump didn't talk with him since the two met at the White House before the shutdown. But that's pretty much Sales 101. After you made your pitch, shut up. The first one to start talking afterwards generally loses.

Art of the deal, baby.

[Starlight]

Seems like Dems won this round. Republicans gave them 6 years of CHIP funding and the promise of serious DACA negotiations in exchange for 3 weeks of government funding.

Dems can filibuster the budget again in 3 weeks if the DACA negotiations haven't progressed to their satisfaction, so they've lost no leverage.

[carpedm9587]

Seems like Dems won this round. Republicans gave them 6 years of CHIP funding and the promise of serious DACA negotiations in exchange for 3 weeks of government funding.

Dems can filibuster the budget again in 3 weeks if the DACA negotiations haven't progressed to their satisfaction, so they've lost no leverage.

I'm not convinced. Trump and Republicans dominated the news cycle, Dems introduced something into the budget bill that was not budget-related, and polls suggest a government shutdown was not worth the DACA issue. I'm not sure the Dems prevailed on this one, and they may have harmed their 2018 chances....

[Starlight]

I'm not convinced. Trump and Republicans dominated the news cycle, Dems introduced something into the budget bill that was not budget-related, and polls suggest a government shutdown was not worth the DACA issue. I'm not sure the Dems prevailed on this one, and they may have harmed their 2018 chances....

Oh the question of which side publicly 'won' / 'lost less' on the publicity / messaging / voter support front is complex, and to a large extent unanswerable.

I was talking purely from a policy standpoint - the Dems got a policy without ceding any policy ground.

[rogue06]

Seems like Dems won this round.

Which of course explains why the hard left is going apoplectic.

From the center-left Politico

Source: Liberals livid after deal to end shutdown

Activist groups were angry at how the negotiations turned out, with some calling it '#SchumerSellout.'Source

© Copyright Original Source

And

Source: Democrats get rolled in shutdown standoff

The three-day standoff offered more proof that government closures never end well for those making the demands.Source

© Copyright Original Source

From the reliably leftist New York Times

Source: Senate Democrats� Vote to End Shutdown Infuriates Some on the Left

Source

© Copyright Original Source

You should have seen the grim faces on CNN this afternoon (well, except for the rare Republican guest). One solemn host groused about how as a result Trump will be taking a "victory lap."