Should Trump Resign Over "Hellhole" Comment?

[Darth Executor]

There's nothing "poignant" about promoting bigotry, division, class envy, and denying people the respect they are due for their accomplishments when you can whittle away at their supposed "privilege" and reduce them to nothing. It's a very ugly lesson to teach.

"Take two steps forward if you're white. Take ten steps forward if you're black and will benefit from affirmative action because liberals don't think you're able to make it on your own without their help."

I have an even better idea, why even stick to a track lesson? We should make sure people always know who is ahead or behind them in the race of life and I have the perfect solution: armbands. Different colors for different ethnicities. Add religious symbol for religion and mars/venus signs for males/females. For example, a Jew could wear a yellow armband with a Star of David on it. I really think this idea will take off.

carp, what do you think?

[Sparko]

So JimL, as a privileged White Male, what have you done, specifically, to create social justice for those less fortunate than you? If I recall you were telling us that you are independently wealthy and don't need to work. So you should have plenty of money and time to help the underprivileged.

[Sparko]

Carpe,

Just so you know. We are not against helping others, especially those who are poor, uneducated, etc. But we do it out of love because we are Christians, not out of guilt because we are white. And we try to help them to succeed on their own, not live off of charity.

[carpedm9587]

Carpe,

Just so you know. We are not against helping others, especially those who are poor, uneducated, etc. But we do it out of love because we are Christians, not out of guilt because we are white. And we try to help them to succeed on their own, not live off of charity.

For the record, Sparko - I've never helped anyone out of guilt, nor have I ever advocated for such. Nor have I ever thought or said that anyone here is cheap or does not do anything to help others. I realize that is likely to be rejected. As I said, my experience is that once folks here have landed on a narrative of "what I mean," anything I say about what I actually mean is typically rejected. It's why I don't feel inclined to try to reply to all of the posts. It's just a waste of energy. I know what I meant, and I know how I live and why I do so. I've made the effort to raise a bit of consciousness. From there - what happens happens. Perhaps someone will wander by, someday, and read what I wrote and take somehting away. Perhaps not. It was worth the effort.

Just to be clear, I DO find value in having a discussion with folks who disagree with a point I've made. In disagreement I often learn something. I just don't find a lot of value in continually having to try to convince someone that what they have read into my post is not what my post meant, especially when they are insistent that they know better than I do what I meant. What's the point of that?

[Zymologist]

For the record, Sparko - I've never helped anyone out of guilt, nor have I ever advocated for such. Nor have I ever thought or said that anyone here is cheap or does not do anything to help others. I realize that is likely to be rejected. As I said, my experience is that once folks here have landed on a narrative of "what I mean," anything I say about what I actually mean is typically rejected. It's why I don't feel inclined to try to reply to all of the posts. It's just a waste of energy. I know what I meant, and I know how I live and why I do so. I've made the effort to raise a bit of consciousness. From there - what happens happens. Perhaps someone will wander by, someday, and read what I wrote and take somehting away. Perhaps not. It was worth the effort.

Just to be clear, I DO find value in having a discussion with folks who disagree with a point I've made. In disagreement I often learn something. I just don't find a lot of value in continually having to try to convince someone that what they have read into my post is not what my post meant, especially when they are insistent that they know better than I do what I meant. What's the point of that?

Is that like reading outrage and indignation into posts that bring up questions and objections?

[carpedm9587]

Is that like reading outrage and indignation into posts that bring up questions and objections?

That's a fair point. I actually don't know what people are feeling. I'm just seeing a swarm of responses, many leaning heavily on the usual gambit of ridiculing the proposed concept, much of it objecting to things I never said/intended, and assuming outrage/indignation. Consider the statement withdrawn with apologies for my assumption.

[Darth Executor]

For the record, Sparko - I've never helped anyone out of guilt, nor have I ever advocated for such.

guilt

2.a feeling of responsibility or remorse for some offense, crime, wrong, etc., whether real or imagined.

Given that you explicitly quote something other white people did as imposing a feeling of responsibility on you I'm not sure why you keep insisting you don't help people out of guilt. You most certainly do. It's by the book white guilt.

[Mountain Man]

As I said, my experience is that once folks here have landed on a narrative of "what I mean," anything I say about what I actually mean is typically rejected.

The problem is that you used the term "white privilege" which carries a lot of baggage with it and implies if not outright asserts that white people should feel ashamed because of their "privilege". It's a term that is grounded in critical race theory which is the belief that white people are inherently guilty simply because they're white. It is, therefore, an inherently negative term, and the fact that you casually throw it around and then act surprised when you get push-back seems disingenuous.

I suppose it's possible that you meant something different by the term, but in that case, you used the wrong term and really didn't say what you meant.

[Cow Poke]

I'm not outraged.

Are so!

[Cow Poke]

Carpe,

Just so you know. We are not against helping others, especially those who are poor, uneducated, etc. But we do it out of love because we are Christians, not out of guilt because we are white. And we try to help them to succeed on their own, not live off of charity.

We do it because we want to, not because some touchyfeely liberal tries to make us.

[carpedm9587]

We do it because we want to, not because some touchyfeely liberal tries to make us.

Two things amaze me. First, that you and Sparko somehow seem to think I was lacking this information and it needed to be said. Second, that you apparently think I, at any point, suggested that people should be "made to" help other people.

It's pointless to waste my time defending positions I don't hold, or trying to convince someone who has already decided what I think what I am actually saying. Pretty much every post, thus far, is way wide of the mark. After a couople of attempts to clarify, I find myself with little real choice but to let people think what they will. Such is life.

I WILL keep reading. But I'm going to limit my responses to posts that actually have something to do with what I'm saying.

[Cow Poke]

Two things amaze me. First, that you and Sparko somehow seem to think I was lacking this information and it needed to be said. Second, that you apparently think I, at any point, suggested that people should be "made to" help other people.

I never claimed you said that - I've said that's what the 'social justice' scam is about.

It's pointless to waste my time defending positions I don't hold, or trying to convince someone who has already decided what I think what I am actually saying. Pretty much every post, thus far, is way wide of the mark. After a couople of attempts to clarify, I find myself with little real choice but to let people think what they will. Such is life.

I WILL keep reading. But I'm going to limit my responses to posts that actually have something to do with what I'm saying.

As you wish.

[Sparko]

Two things amaze me. First, that you and Sparko somehow seem to think I was lacking this information and it needed to be said. Second, that you apparently think I, at any point, suggested that people should be "made to" help other people.

It's pointless to waste my time defending positions I don't hold, or trying to convince someone who has already decided what I think what I am actually saying. Pretty much every post, thus far, is way wide of the mark. After a couople of attempts to clarify, I find myself with little real choice but to let people think what they will. Such is life.

I WILL keep reading. But I'm going to limit my responses to posts that actually have something to do with what I'm saying.

You were the one going on about how you felt responsible to help others because of your privileged status! I merely pointed out that we too help others but not because we feel responsible because of our status but because we want to because we care about our fellow man. I am not saying you don't care about your fellow man, but that it seems from what you said, your primary motivation is feeling responsible because you think you are privileged and they are not but deserve to be.

[Cow Poke]

That's a fair point. I actually don't know what people are feeling.

And, therefore, you jump to some pretty (I'll refrain from saying 'drama queen') wild conclusions.

I'm just seeing a swarm of responses, many leaning heavily on the usual gambit of ridiculing the proposed concept, much of it objecting to things I never said/intended, and assuming outrage/indignation. Consider the statement withdrawn with apologies for my assumption.

Go and sin no more!

[Mountain Man]

It's pointless to waste my time defending positions I don't hold, or trying to convince someone who has already decided what I think what I am actually saying. Pretty much every post, thus far, is way wide of the mark.

You're the one who used the term "white privilege" and then reinforced it with the stupid example with the track coach promoting class envy and self-loathing, so don't whine to us when it's the target we shoot at.