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Should Trump Resign Over "Hellhole" Comment?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe surprise was 30 pages in just a couple of days.
...and nothing accomplished.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI think you're wasting your time overthinking that one - just abolish it.
I would love to see involvement by other, smaller parties, but not sure how to do that without disproportionately weighting them.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIS or WAS?
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostFrankly, I would not mind seeing the electoral college disapper altogether. However, that would require a constitutional amendment, and those are difficult and relatively rare. The adjustment I propose requires no such adjustment and gets us closer to the popular vote, while preserving the electoral structure. It's not the ideal, but it's a significant improvement. That is, of course, if the practice of gerrymandering is put to rest. I believe the layout of congressional districts should be turned over to a bipartisan panel with representation from both major parties co-chaired by a member of each party.
I would love to see involvement by other, smaller parties, but not sure how to do that without disproportionately weighting them.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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I have to admit that I too have struggled with the candidates being put forward by the Republican party, and the support they are receiving from evangelicals and the Christian right. I understand the arguments about selecting from the lesser of two evils, but what is happening seems to me to be more than that. Not only are Republicans voting for these people to avoid having a pro-choice supporter and pro-LBGTQ supporter in office, after the election they are vigorously defending them against any and all claims, even when there is significant evidence of malfeasance. It stops looking like "grudging acceptance" and begins to look like "enthusiastic support." In so doing, I think the Christian right is trading short-term gain for long-term problems. I work extensively with young people in our community, and I hear a LOT of voices saying what Tass and others here have been saying. I think the right has seriously harmed its credibility with these young people on a massive scale, and it will likely accelerate the movement away from religions.
Don't get me wrong - the left does the same thing with their candidates. The difference is the bar that has been set. Evangelicals and the Christian right have put themselves forward as the defenders of moral rectitude to a degree that the left has not. The "family values" theme is much more associated with the right than the left, for example. It is that disconnect that I am hearing young people reject.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI have to admit that I too have struggled with the candidates being put forward by the Republican party, and the support they are receiving from evangelicals and the Christian right. I understand the arguments about selecting from the lesser of two evils, but what is happening seems to me to be more than that. Not only are Republicans voting for these people to avoid having a pro-choice supporter and pro-LBGTQ supporter in office, after the election they are vigorously defending them against any and all claims, even when there is significant evidence of malfeasance. It stops looking like "grudging acceptance" and begins to look like "enthusiastic support." In so doing, I think the Christian right is trading short-term gain for long-term problems. I work extensively with young people in our community, and I hear a LOT of voices saying what Tass and others here have been saying. I think the right has seriously harmed its credibility with these young people on a massive scale, and it will likely accelerate the movement away from religions.
Don't get me wrong - the left does the same thing with their candidates. The difference is the bar that has been set. Evangelicals and the Christian right have put themselves forward as the defenders of moral rectitude to a degree that the left has not. The "family values" theme is much more associated with the right than the left, for example. It is that disconnect that I am hearing young people reject.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo we think that Trump is not sexually immoral, or racist, or a liar. That's all made up by you guys.
He has been caught twisting fact after fact after fact, setting records for flat-out-wrong statements when he speaks, and clinging to his statement even in the face of audio, video, and or evidence that he was not correct. He tells us, in his book, that lying is perfectly acceptable in negotiations if it gets you what you want. He explicitly TELLS us that he is a liar, and you reject that and say he is not?
As for racist, I have heard his words, seen his actions, and heard too many attestations to things he has said. Apparently, there are reels and reels of excised footage from The Apprentice with him saying outrageously racial things, and these will never see the light of day because Trump is still executive producer and controls the content. If this man is SO innocent, can someone explain to me why we still have not seen his tax returns, cannot see that excised footage, and so forth?
I'm sorry - but the lengths to which the right goes to defend this horrendous man (and others like him) is one of the main reasons that much of the nation increasingly sees the religious right as having lost its claim to moral righteousness. There are more and more of this kind of article from other religious groups as well as from moderates and the left. These are the very groups from which the religious right needs to recruit - because you cannot recruit from yourself. This is what I meant, in another post, about the long-term harm I think the religious right is doing to its own objectives. It is increasingly being seen as an immoral group, rather than a moral one.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhy do people think a straight popular vote is somehow superior to the electoral college? Liberals are only complaining about it because they think Hillary was cheated out of a win when there's no guarantee she would have won if she and Trump were both campaigning for the popular vote. They both played by the same rules, and she lost. It's long past time to suck it up.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI find it a bit...odd...that people are fine with seeing the left as having no stance on morality. Like, if you're complete immoral scum, you're supposed to have a better chance with Democrats than Republicans, and Republicans are hypocrites for electing that sort of person, but Democrats aren't. I mean, even if you're not religious, who would want to be a part of a party that's seen as having no ethics?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI find it a bit...odd...that people are fine with seeing the left as having no stance on morality. Like, if you're complete immoral scum, you're supposed to have a better chance with Democrats than Republicans, and Republicans are hypocrites for electing that sort of person, but Democrats aren't. I mean, even if you're not religious, who would want to be a part of a party that's seen as having no ethics?
I'm not saying the situation is right, wrong, desireable, undesirable, etc. I'm simply noting that the situation exists, and I think it will eventually give the right some serious heartburn.
The left, on the other hand, focuses on the individual issues (e.g., gay rights, pro-choice, etc.) as individually desirable (without usually using the language of moral/ethical), creeating a lower bar on that front.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by JimL View PostExcept for the fact that that is nonsense. We on the left do not have "no stance on morality" as you suggest, we don't vote for complete immoral scum, as apparently Evangelicals will. Do you seriously believe that liberals in general are immoral? Then why do you say it?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostUmmm... I'm not sure the left is any more innocent of electing "moral scum" than the right. I think that would be a hard case to make, especially with the wide array of what constitutes "moral scum."
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Originally posted by JimL View PostExcept for the fact that that is nonsense. We on the left do not have "no stance on morality" as you suggest, we don't vote for complete immoral scum, as apparently Evangelicals will. Do you seriously believe that liberals in general are immoral? Then why do you say it?
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