And it doesn't bother you that the Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Hillary's campaign and is wholly lacking credibility?
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Review of the Russian collusion narrative
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd it doesn't bother you that the Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Hillary's campaign and is wholly lacking credibility?
From Simpson's testimony, Steele was given an open-ended assignment, but not otherwise directed.
pp. 82-83, [line numbers cleared for readability]
Q. [Heather Sawyer, Chief Oversight Counsel, Senator Feinstein] And specific to the engagement with regard to the research on Candidate Trump, why did you specifically ask Mr. Steele to do that work?
A. [Glenn Simpson, Fusion GPS] The way our firm runs we pursue things, you know, somewhat out of curiosity. So we didn't know -- it was opaque what Donald Trump had been doing on these business trips to Russia. We didn't know what he was doing there. So I gave Chris -- we gave Chris a sort of assignment that would be typical for us which was pretty open ended. We said see if you can find out what Donald Trump's been doing on these trips to Russia.
Since Chris and I worked together over the years there's a lot that didn't need to be said. That would include who is he doing business with, which hotels does he like to stay at, you know, did anyone ever offer him anything, you know, the standard sort of things you would look at. I don't think I gave him any specific instructions beyond the general find out what he was up to.
The Steele dossier is basically raw intelligence, so we should expect inaccuracies. I'm comfortable leaving judgments of its overall credibility with the specialists. That's not to say there hasn't been confirmation of individual findings.
Regarding Carter Page ...
[Glenn Simpson, Fusion GPS] So, you know, we would evaluate his memos based on whether he told us something we didn't know from somewhere else that we were then able to run down. So, you know, for example, he, you know, wrote a memo about a Trump campaign advisor named Carter Page and his mysterious trip to Moscow.
[... long ...]
Of course, you know, when we talk about things in the dossier that are confirmed, this is one of the things that I think really stands out as notable, which is that Chris identified Carter Page as someone who had -- seemed to be in the middle of the campaign, between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin, and he later turned out to be an espionage suspect who was, in fact, someone that the FBI had been investigating for years.
Regarding Sergei Ivanov, pp. 236 ff.
So we looked into Carter Page and we also looked into Igor Sechin and whether Sergei Ivanov was in a position to be managing the election operation, which is what 94 talks about, and we determined that he was.
[...]
Before I got this memo I didn't know about this internal Kremlin structure. It was either this one or the previous one. So in the course of saying who is this Ivanov guy, you know, we looked at Ivanov and found journal articles and other public information about his long history of intelligence. He's a veteran of the FSB, his long history with Vladimir Putin, and his role atop this internal operation.
Simpson's description of Steele is telling.
He was the lead Russianist at MI6 prior to leaving the government and an extremely well-regarded investigator, researcher, and, as I say, we're friends and share interest in Russian kleptocracy and organized crime issues.
[... long ...]
So -- I mean, I hope you won't be insulted, but he's basically a Boy Scout. You know, he worked for the government for a very long time. He lives a very modest, quiet life, and, you know, this is his specialty.
Fusion GPS is a group of former WSJ financial reporters concentrating on open source material. That's as non-partisan as it gets. It should also be noted that Simpson testified on Prevezon and the Magnitsky act as well.
Regarding William Browder, Magnitsky's boss,
At that point somewhere in there the Panama papers came out and we discovered that he had incorporated shell companies offshore in the mid 1990s, in 1995 I believe it was in the British Virgin Islands, and that at some point his hedge fund's shares had been transferred to this offshore company.
This offshore company was managed -- several of his offshore companies were managed by the Panamanian law firm called Mossack Fonseca, M-O-S-S-A-C-K, Fonseca, F-O-N-S-E-C-A, which is known now for setting up offshore companies for drug kingpins, narcos, kleptos, you name it. They were servicing every bad guy around. And I'm familiar with them from other money laundering and corruption and tax evasion investigations that I've done.
I'll note parenthetically that William Browder talks a lot about the Panama papers and the Russians who are in the Panama papers without ever mentioning that he's in the Panama papers. This is, again, a public fact that you can check on-line.
These guys look like pros, and look like they subcontract to pros, too. Like any information, the material in the dossier isn't enough without corroboration, but that doesn't bother me, it's just a fact.
In any case, the suggestion that the opposition research was inaccurate because of its funding, and more, that the dossier itself wholly lacks credibility, is unwarranted.Last edited by Juvenal; 01-14-2018, 01:31 PM.
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostThe Steele dossier is basically raw intelligence, so we should expect inaccuracies.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostIt's been a while since I looked at Rosenstein's order.
I hadn't realized until recently that Rosenstein was solely responsible for Mueller's appointment - I had naively assumed it was a congressional panel and had thought "well at least something Congress does is functioning because they got it right with Mueller"."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd it doesn't bother you that the Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Hillary's campaign
and is wholly lacking credibility?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostI believe it had previously been funded by other sources and only at the end did the Hillary campaign take over the funding of it.
It keeps being repeatedly and systematically confirmed as true. You're in lala land if you think it's all false.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, I can't say with certainty, but if a democrat was suspected of colluding with a foreign adversary, of possibly being blackmailed, or of actually being purposfully treasoness, I don't believe that the democrats in power would look the other way or actually work to impede an investigation into that possibility as the republicans are now definitely doing.
The problem is that all politicians come in size human and the people who are supposed to keep them accountable are too busy throwing things at each other."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostI find that rather naive - and it flies in the face of history and facts.
I admit, my own growth politically had most to do with my leaving the Democrat party - well, finally, anyway (took me 10 years to admit to myself that no, I'm not a democrat any more) - but I was well past tired of trying to defend a party that so routinely let me down in the ethics department.
The problem is that all politicians come in size human and the people who are supposed to keep them accountable are too busy throwing things at each other.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWhat history, I don't know of any Democrat being investigated for obstructing an investigation into his administrations possible collusion with a foreign adversary or of his/her party working to undermine that investigation.
That's odd, my experience was just the opposite. I was a democrat in the same sense that I, and most christians, are christian. I was born into it. When I started to pay more attention to politics I decided to become an independent until I realized who Republicans actually are and what they stood for at which time I switched back to democrat realizing that I could never again vote for a republican anyway because of that. I have found that there is only one reason the republican party pretends to support your social/ethical agenda, and thats so that they can stab you in the back economically a la Trump and his band of thieves.
I'd go independent but I respect them least of all - oh some truly are principled and I do respect that but most are just pretentious.
In my opinion the problems are many, the system is rigged, big money is to much of a factor, voting is made difficult rather than easy, and many people, for various reasons, aren't civic minded enough to participate in the political process."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI believe it had previously been funded by other sources and only at the end did the Hillary campaign take over the funding of it.Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostA conservative website that most people had never heard of before started the dossier, but it was the Hillary campaign that paid for it and did the vast majority of the work.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAs far as anything being confirmed, all of them are inconsequential details, and nothing in it implicates the President.
While Mueller's brief includes "links and/or coordination" with the Trump campaign, the headline is "RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION," a topic that is both far more consequential and far broader than cooperation with Trump campaign figures. Independent of any consequences for Trump, this interference remains an active issue, and one which has to date been poorly addressed by congress, and not at all by the current administration.
Anecdotally, I can personally confirm that the Russian botnet on FB is still active. A couple of months ago, one of my rare public postings, a news story, was picked up by FB's algorithm. One of the responses, in English, came from the account of what appeared to be a young Georgian woman, (not our Georgia), with no more than a half dozen public posts of her own, all of which were in Georgian script.
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostIndependent of any consequences for Trump, this interference remains an active issue, and one which has to date been poorly addressed by congress, and not at all by the current administration.
Anecdotally, I can personally confirm that the Russian botnet on FB is still active. A couple of months ago, one of my rare public postings, a news story, was picked up by FB's algorithm. One of the responses, in English, came from the account of what appeared to be a young Georgian woman, (not our Georgia), with no more than a half dozen public posts of her own, all of which were in Georgian script."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostI find that rather naive - and it flies in the face of history and facts. I admit, my own growth politically had most to do with my leaving the Democrat party - well, finally, anyway (took me 10 years to admit to myself that no, I'm not a democrat any more) - but I was well past tired of trying to defend a party that so routinely let me down in the ethics department.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI think you'll find that a lot of Republican voters feel the same way, though perhaps to a lesser extent. It's one of the reasons I identify as a conservative rather than a Republican.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostManafort and Page's relationships with Russian intelligence are confirmed and consequential, the former confirmed as receiving financial support from the Kremlin, the latter confirmed as an espionage recruit.
Originally posted by lao tzu View PostWhile Mueller's brief includes "links and/or coordination" with the Trump campaign, the headline is "RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION," a topic that is both far more consequential and far broader than cooperation with Trump campaign figures. Independent of any consequences for Trump, this interference remains an active issue, and one which has to date been poorly addressed by congress, and not at all by the current administration.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThey were on the federal radar long before the dossier was cobbled together, and a lot of the information about Page came from newspaper articles, meaning Steele isn't the big-time intelligence agent he and the liberal media made him out to be.
"Interference" is such an unspecific term that it's almost meaningless. Literally anything could be deemed "interference". Whatever Russia did to influence the opinions of the electorate - assuming they did anything at all - it's certainly no worse than what our own media did to tip the balance in Hillary's favor. Or what the Democrats did to their own constituents when they cheated Bernie out of the nomination. At worst, the Russians exposed Hillary and the Democrats for what they really are; in other words, they allegedly did the job our own media refused to do.
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