'Transracial' man born white feels like he is Filipino...

[Darth Executor]

Whether or not someone is a man or a woman involves sex, not gender.

I agree but this is not true according to liberals and mainstream psychology (but I repeat myself).

Gender performance has nothing to do with whether or not people think you're a man or a woman. It has to do with whether or not people think you conform to gender roles.

The gender you belong to has everything to do with whether or not people think you're a man or a woman according to transsexuals.

The existence of a composite proves that sex isn't binary. Binary means two, and a composite is a third status.

No it isn't, and the composite is an abnormality.

Binary means two but you can have composites of both. Our electronics depend on it (IE: AND/OR gates and their variations).

[Psychic Missile]

but I thought "male" and "female" were sex, and "man" and "woman" were gender? Can you guys make up your minds?

Please describe the proper terms and conditions regarding the difference in sex and gender.

Gender is whether or not you conform to behavior society has decided is appropriate for men and women. If you are a man who behaves like how society thinks woman should behave, you have a feminine/female gender.
Sex is your biological status. It involves your biological characteristics, including and most importantly your brain, but more commonly your genitals and secondary sex characteristics.

PM you totally ignored this part of my previous post:

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if race doesn't actually exist, then physical characteristics don't actually count as race. So no surgery is necessary.

This woman has all of the physical characteristics of a black person but guess what? She is Caucasian.

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Society decides what physical characteristics belong to what race. Whether or not any given individual is white depends upon what society thinks a white person is.

Aren't gender roles sexism?

You don't seem to have a really good grasp on this whole liberal thing PM.

Yes, they are. People should be able to have whatever gender they want, but the best case scenario is a post-gender society.

[Sparko]

Gender is whether or not you conform to behavior society has decided is appropriate for men and women. If you are a man who behaves like how society thinks woman should behave, you have a feminine/female gender.
Sex is your biological status. It involves your biological characteristics, including and most importantly your brain, but more commonly your genitals and secondary sex characteristics.



Society decides what physical characteristics belong to what race. Whether or not any given individual is white depends upon what society thinks a white person is.



Yes, they are. People should be able to have whatever gender they want, but the best case scenario is a post-gender society.

so what terms do you use when talking about gender vs sex?

When Jenner calls himself a "woman" is s/he talking gender or sex? does the terms "he" and "she" refer to gender or sex?

If society thinks Jenner is a man in a dress, does that mean he is a man in a dress? Or is he a woman because he says he is?

[Psychic Missile]

I agree but this is not true according to liberals and mainstream psychology (but I repeat myself).

I don't think I'm atypical when it comes to liberals or scientific/sociological consensus.

The gender you belong to has everything to do with whether or not people think you're a man or a woman according to transsexuals.

A trans person might behavior according to the gender role of the sex they are transitioning into, but they don't have to. Some trans people have a third/non-binary gender.

No it isn't, and the composite is an abnormality.

Binary means two but you can have composites of both. Our electronics depend on it (IE: AND/OR gates and their variations).

When I say that sex is not a binary I mean that there are not only two options. Someone who is both male and female is not just male and not just female, they are a third option. Maybe I'm using the term incorrectly but this is what I meant to say.

[Psychic Missile]

so what terms do you use when talking about gender vs sex?

When Jenner calls himself a "woman" is s/he talking gender or sex? does the terms "he" and "she" refer to gender or sex?

If society thinks Jenner is a man in a dress, does that mean he is a man in a dress? Or is he a woman because he says he is?

I know next to nothing about Caitlyn Jenner, so I'll try to answer your questions outside of that context.

If someone is getting hormone therapy and a sex change, they are talking about their sex. If someone is talking about the clothes they wear or the way they behave, they are talking about gender. Most, but not all, trans people will change both sex and gender. If you are talking about trans people in a general sense, you are talking about sex. When people talk about preferred pronouns, most of the time they are talking about their sex. Society can decide on what sex someone is, just like it can decide on whether or not gravity exists, but the real authority is the science. Society determines what behavior each gender is defined by, but any given individual decides what gender they are.

I hope this answers your questions.

[Sparko]

I know next to nothing about Caitlyn Jenner, so I'll try to answer your questions outside of that context.

If someone is getting hormone therapy and a sex change, they are talking about their sex. If someone is talking about the clothes they wear or the way they behave, they are talking about gender. Most, but not all, trans people will change both sex and gender. If you are talking about trans people in a general sense, you are talking about sex. When people talk about preferred pronouns, most of the time they are talking about their sex. Society can decide on what sex someone is, just like it can decide on whether or not gravity exists, but the real authority is the science. Society determines what behavior each gender is defined by, but any given individual decides what gender they are.

I hope this answers your questions.

So can a guy change his sex but not his gender?
How would that work?

[seer]

This explains a lot...

Republicans, Democrats have starkly different views on transgender issues

with some college and 57% of those with a high school diploma or less. No such divide exists among Republicans.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...and-democrats/

[rogue06]

This explains a lot...

So only 23% of those in the self-described party of science that have a college education think that a doctor doesn't know what he/she -- ze -- is talking about when they say to the mother of a new born baby that "it's a boy" or "it's a girl."

Then again, given how many think that just moments ago the baby was nothing but a lump of cells and not even a human being, I guess we ought to expect nothing less.

[Bill the Cat]

The biological cause of homosexuality and gender identity disorder as well as transitioning as a possible treatment for GID are backed by science.

No it isn't. There are theories at best.

If you or anyone else isn't interested in understanding that because of a knee-jerk emotional reaction to people unlike you, nothing can help with that.

It has nothing to do with emotions.

[Sparko]

So basically according to PM, being male or female is biologically determined through actual genetics, but it is something that you can choose to change on a whim just by declaring it so or having an operation... but race, which he claims is NOT genetically based but merely a social construct can't be changed because of physical characteristics.

[Jedidiah]

I know next to nothing about Caitlyn Jenner, so I'll try to answer your questions outside of that context.

If someone is getting hormone therapy and a sex change, they are talking about their sex. If someone is talking about the clothes they wear or the way they behave, they are talking about gender. Most, but not all, trans people will change both sex and gender. If you are talking about trans people in a general sense, you are talking about sex. When people talk about preferred pronouns, most of the time they are talking about their sex. Society can decide on what sex someone is, just like it can decide on whether or not gravity exists, but the real authority is the science. Society determines what behavior each gender is defined by, but any given individual decides what gender they are.

I hope this answers your questions.

It is not possible with today's medical tech to change sex. All you can do is try to imitate the opposite sex. Mutilating your body does not change your sex.

[rogue06]

It is not possible with today's medical tech to change sex. All you can do is try to imitate the opposite sex. Mutilating your body does not change your sex.

Reminds of an episode of South Park (back when I still occasionally watched it) where one of the kid's dads had a Dolphinoplasty to turn himself into a dolphin

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Which also had the gay teacher, Mr. Garrison, undergo a sex change surgery and essentially mocked the entire concept

[Sparko]

So why can't a white guy take melanin injections, get a perm and some plastic surgery on his nose and lips and become Transblack? After all Michael Jackson did it in reverse.

[seer]

After all Michael Jackson did it in reverse.

Right, where else but America can a poor black boy grow up to be a rich white women!

[Psychic Missile]

So can a guy change his sex but not his gender?
How would that work?

Gender is just how you behave, so if someone gets a sex change but doesn't act any differently (how they speak, how they dress, how they present themselves) then they changed their sex but not their gender.

So basically according to PM, being male or female is biologically determined through actual genetics, but it is something that you can choose to change on a whim just by declaring it so or having an operation... but race, which he claims is NOT genetically based but merely a social construct can't be changed because of physical characteristics.

No. Being male or female is biologically determined through genetics and someone's mind may be a different sex from their body, at which point their mind may take precedence if medical experts determine transitioning an effective treatment. Race is based on what a society thinks, so you cannot change your race without changing what society thinks, which is impossible for one person to do alone.

So why can't a white guy take melanin injections, get a perm and some plastic surgery on his nose and lips and become Transblack? After all Michael Jackson did it in reverse.

Did society consider MJ white or black?