27 Christians Murdered In Texas Church...

[Jedidiah]

Weren't you a cop? The vehicle is typically reported missing so that the criminal can be caught. Without a license and registration that would be a much more complicated thing to accomplish. This is a good thing, because caught car thieves can't use stolen vehicles to commit other crimes with said vehicle.

A stolen car is on the highway system and much more subject to being caught. A gun is not readily visible until it is used so registration is totally pointless from that perspective.

[Cow Poke]

So the argument for requiring guns to be registered is "we register cars, don't we?"

When a car or truck is used as a weapon - Oklahoma City, 1973 NYC bombing, 2010 Time Square bomb attempt, 1993 World Trade Center bombing, Stirling Hall bombing - a legally registered vehicle was used.
In some cases, the car was stolen, and in some cases, the truck or car was legally rented.

I don't know of ANY car bombings or attempts in the US where an unregistered vehicle was used. (There may be some, but I'm not aware of them)

So, somebody please explain to me what registering firearms would accomplish.

[Cow Poke]

A stolen car is on the highway system and much more subject to being caught.

That's assuming, of course, that the car has been reported stolen prior to the commission of the bigger crime. (the smaller crime was, of course, the stealing of the vehicle)

A gun is not readily visible until it is used so registration is totally pointless from that perspective.

And there aren't many criminals stupid enough to use a weapon registered to themselves to commit a crime, with the notable exception of crimes of passion.

[Sparko]

That's assuming, of course, that the car has been reported stolen prior to the commission of the bigger crime. (the smaller crime was, of course, the stealing of the vehicle)



And there aren't many criminals stupid enough to use a weapon registered to themselves to commit a crime, with the notable exception of crimes of passion.

or at the very least they would ditch the weapon or destroy it. Like I said earlier, bullets aren't registered so unless the police have the weapon in hand after a crime they can't trace it back to a person (unless they already have ballistics from a previous crime on the gun)

[Adrift]

sigh. OK I watched the video. It says exactly what I said earlier and answered here: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post488561

Other than registering ALL guns how is this different than what we already have in the states I mentioned earlier? You can't even buy a handgun in those states without registering it. Even if you just keep it in your home. How do you expect to get it home without a permit? They check your permit or you sign up for one when you buy the gun. And you have to register that gun with the state. Serial number and all. I see no difference in say getting a gun in New York and what you are proposing. Yet it doesn't seem to help eliminate handgun crime in New York. It might make it easier to track down the gun after a crime. But it doesn't stop anyone from committing the crime. Or tossing the gun after a crime, or using a stolen gun in a crime.

You apparently didn't watch the video, because it doesn't at all say what you say you said and answered earlier. You were referring to concealed, and then open carry guns. That's not what that video is referring to. Registering all guns is exactly the point! Currently there is no federal requirement to license and register all guns in the US, and very few states require it. And, no, you don't need a permit to purchase in most states. I can literally go down to my local Walmart, point to the gun I want, show them my ID and fill out a form 4473, get the background check done, and take the gun home with me that minute. I don't need a permit, a license, a registration, or anything. If I'm at a gunshow, or buying the gun from my pal, I don't even need that. As far as tracing guns is concerned, the entire process as it currently stands is extremely sloppy and scary. Here's an interesting Business Insider article on the subject: http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...e-a-gun-2016-8

And as I already explained, the problem with mandatory license/registration in some states, but not in all states is that state borders are porous, meaning that it takes nothing for anyone to get in their car and drive to their border, buy a gun, and drive back. It's practically pointless if it's not national.

[Cow Poke]

Here's an interesting Business Insider article on the subject: http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...e-a-gun-2016-8

I really wanted to read that article, but it's behind a paywall.

[Adrift]

Perhaps you know dumber criminals than I do. The vehicle is typically stolen when the owner is asleep or at work, or in a restaurant - something that the criminal believes will give him time - and by the time the owner realizes his car is missing, it has already been used in a crime.



OK, I shouldn't have to explain this - but I'm certainly not saying that criminals will use a vehicle WITHOUT license plates. That part of the conversation was simply to point out that not ALL vehicles are required to be registered.

To the point, I think you may be suffering under the misconception that all criminals are stupid. And, the fact that they're driving a stolen car doesn't in itself bring attention to them. They have to be noticed, or there needs to be probable cause to stop them.



I'm being sincere, Adrift. When have I given you a hard time just for the sake of giving you a hard time? In fact, when was the last time I gave you a hard time at all? I'm just calmly discussing with you because I like you.



Again, I think you're totally missing the point. Criminals don't commit major crimes using their own vehicles. They're smart enough to steal one that is properly registered and looks normal.



I think you're reaching.



How can the cop know what vehicle to look for BEFORE the crime? And the vehicle is generally stolen a very short time prior to the crime. Once stolen, and crime committed, that vehicle is abandoned. I don't understand why you're not getting this.

I don't even know how to respond to this post. Are you arguing that it's never been the case that a criminal was busted driving a stolen car without the intent to commit further crime?

[Cow Poke]

And as I already explained, the problem with mandatory license/registration in some states, but not in all states is that state borders are porous, meaning that it takes nothing for anyone to get in their car and drive to their border, buy a gun, and drive back. It's practically pointless if it's not national.

Or just steal a registered gun from somebody else, just like they do with legally registered vehicles.

[Sparko]

You apparently didn't watch the video, because it doesn't at all say what you say you said and answered earlier. You were referring to concealed, and then open carry guns. That's not what that video is referring to. Registering all guns is exactly the point! Currently there is no federal requirement to license and register all guns in the US, and very few states require it. And, no, you don't need a permit to purchase in most states. I can literally go down to my local Walmart, point to the gun I want, show them my ID and fill out a form 4473, get the background check done, and take the gun home with me that minute. I don't need a permit, a license, a registration, or anything. If I'm at a gunshow, or buying the gun from my pal, I don't even need that. As far as tracing guns is concerned, the entire process as it currently stands is extremely sloppy and scary. Here's an interesting Business Insider article on the subject: http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...e-a-gun-2016-8

And as I already explained, the problem with mandatory license/registration in some states, but not in all states is that state borders are porous, meaning that it takes nothing for anyone to get in their car and drive to their border, buy a gun, and drive back. It's practically pointless if it's not national.

And if it were national, it still would not matter. People steal guns. They will run them over from Mexico or Canada, they will file the serial numbers off. There are millions of used guns already out there that are not registered. Only law abiding people will register their guns. If someone were to plan to use a gun in a crime, they would not use a gun registered to themselves. Maybe in a crime of passion, but those are usually solved pretty fast anyway without registration. Or the guy just doesn't give a crap. The Las Vegas shooter had legally purchased guns. That didn't stop him. Or the guy this thread is about.

How would registrations do anything? The police still can't tell who used a gun in a crime unless they have the actual gun. At which point they probably have a suspect in mind and finger prints. Most criminals are not going to leave the gun behind. So how would the police use the registration to find out who did it?

[Cow Poke]

I don't even know how to respond to this post.

Calmly and rationally like we're old friends.

Are you arguing that it's never been the case that a criminal was busted driving a stolen car without the intent to commit further crime?

We're not talking about common criminals, Adrift. We're talking about criminals who are planning to do mass murder, yes? Isn't that when the left gets all excited about gun control?

Common criminals are OFTEN caught because a police officer finds reasonable cause to stop and question. Something as simple as a license plate light out, or not using a blinker, or expired tags. That's a good thing.

But a criminal who is planning on doing something big knows all that, and will not attract attention to himself. As I have already stated, he's going to find a way to appear normal - stealing a car that he thinks won't be reported missing until after the crime has been committed, for example.

Criminals who are going to commit big crimes are also aware that even smaller police departments now have "license plate readers" on some patrol cars - they scan every single license plate they pass and automatically check it against NCIC or other databases. A criminal who is planning something big is not going to be driving around for long periods of time in a stolen vehicle.

[Adrift]

It is exactly opponents of government gun control that all this "virtue signalling" is aimed at. You have shown no "plausible solutions" and I do not understand the rationale behind your anti gun stance.

I reject the accusation. I know who I am, and I know my own intent. You can think me a liar if you'd like, but I am not "virtue signalling". As I understand it, virtue signalling is usually demonstrated among peers who share similar views on the subject being virtue signaled. You don't share my view on the subject, so signalling you that I have virtue on the subject makes absolutely zero sense. If you understand virtue signalling in some other sort of way, then all I can do is repeat what I've stated. Call me a liar if you'd like, whatever. Also, I believe that I have offered plausible solutions. That you don't agree doesn't mean I haven't done so.

[Adrift]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24825[/ATTACH]

William Burroughs was a junkie pedophile who shot his own wife and got away with it. Might want to rethink taking his word on the subject.

[Cow Poke]

William Burroughs was a junkie pedophile who shot his own wife and got away with it. Might want to rethink taking his word on the subject.

The fact that the guy may have been what you say (I don't have any reason to doubt you) doesn't change the truth of the message.

[Sparko]

William Burroughs was a junkie pedophile who shot his own wife and got away with it. Might want to rethink taking his word on the subject.

Never even heard of the guy. I guess even pedophile junkie murderers get some things right.

[Adrift]

So the argument for requiring guns to be registered is "we register cars, don't we?"

When a car or truck is used as a weapon - Oklahoma City, 1973 NYC bombing, 2010 Time Square bomb attempt, 1993 World Trade Center bombing, Stirling Hall bombing - a legally registered vehicle was used.
In some cases, the car was stolen, and in some cases, the truck or car was legally rented.

I don't know of ANY car bombings or attempts in the US where an unregistered vehicle was used. (There may be some, but I'm not aware of them)

So, somebody please explain to me what registering firearms would accomplish.

I already did. See post #173 where I pointed out that unregistered and unlicensed vehicles are a dead give away, preventing them from being used in the first place, and that, second of all, registered vehicles are often used to track criminals after the fact. Also identified stolen vehicles prevent criminals from continuing on to commit further crime. It's not a band-aid that prevents all crimes ever committed with vehicles, but it definitely can be a deterrent.