Mass Shooting Las Vegas...

[rogue06]

I've known two people killed by guns. In both cases people who DANGED WELL KNEW BETTER did something STUPID that resulted in death. There are very few things that can be mishandled and readily cause death and dismemberment to others. Chain saws, maybe, but they're frankly more likely to hurt the moron playing with them.

A gun is NEVER perfectly safe - only a fool handles a gun that way.

Lots of people have died because they did something incredibly stupid (the whole "Hey guys watch this" meme is based on that). Firearms are not unique in that way.

Fortunately, at a very young age, my father instilled in us the notion that a gun is ALWAYS loaded. Not that it might be loaded but that it IS loaded. Even after you disassembled it, cleaned it and just put it back together -- it is loaded. You never, ever have the business end aimed at someone unless you mean to. As a result, in spite of having carried a firearm for decades (sometimes more than one) I have never accidentally discharged one.

Personally I think gun safety classes are important and only a fool would skip one. The "evil" NRA sponsors some of the best around.

[rogue06]

OBP, I would suggest that you try not to make a fool out of yourself in your continuous attempt to paint me as one.

Completely unnecessary since you do such a splendid job doing it all by yourself.

[TheWall]

I think something needs to be done.
Demonizing gun owners won't help but neither will Demonizing folks who don't like guns.
American culture holds guns in esteem because guns helped found this country. A buyback wouldn't work because culturally it would be an outrage to Americans.

[Adrift]

This whole pinning the blame on the gun owners who would rebel if the government showed up to take them away (at gunpoint, ironically) seems to overlook the rather obvious fact that we only know they're willing to rebel with their guns because someone else is willing to use violence to take them away. It's reminiscent of a movie villain who says something like, "See what you're making me do? This blood is on your hands," as he commits violent crimes.

Well first of all, I take issue with the idea that taking away a dangerous weapon is like forcing someone to sodomize someone else, or like a movie villain who is committing a violent crime. I mean, that's not how I imagine it at all. I don't know why that doesn't come through in my posts. I don't even know how one can make these sorts of comparisons. They seem absurd to me. I think a better comparison might be something like a popular toy that was found to be highly toxic or radioactive. That could do harm to every citizen in the community. If the government came to take away this highly dangerous toy, and people fought viciously to hold onto that toy, then I don't see how the comparison of a crime boss or mandatory sodomy is apt.

[Adrift]

This is below your intellectual level. I am disappointed.

I never claimed to be very bright.

[KingsGambit]

American culture holds guns in esteem because guns helped found this country. A buyback wouldn't work because culturally it would be an outrage to Americans.

I think that's fundamentally sick, personally. The US has much higher rates of gun violence than nearly other developed country in the world. I think that's nothing to be proud of, and somehow we as Christians need to speak against this gun culture. Obviously gun control isn't going to fix the problem, so the culture needs to change.

[Adrift]

Let me rephrase are you saying you are ok with punishing innocent law abiding citizens by taking way their means to protect themselves from the guilty violent criminals who will get guns anyway or use something else to commit their violent act because they care nothing about the Law that is why we call them Criminals. And before you mention the Police how do you expect them to be there 24/7 for everyone? Sorry your solution is no solution.

Yes. I'm willing to take the chance. I, of course, don't consider it a punishment, but that's just me.

[KingsGambit]

Let me rephrase are you saying you are ok with punishing innocent law abiding citizens by taking way their means to protect themselves from the guilty violent criminals who will get guns anyway or use something else to commit their violent act because they care nothing about the Law that is why we call them Criminals. And before you mention the Police how do you expect them to be there 24/7 for everyone? Sorry your solution is no solution.

I wouldn't consider it a "punishment" any more than laws prohibiting people from buying warehouses of Sudafed are punishment for people who make meth.

[Adrift]

And don't forget even the Supreme Court has ruled that the police department aren't there to protect someone (Warren v. District of Columbia) but rather to investigate crimes and try to arrest those who broke the law. Personally I don't want to be a crime statistic.

As I understand it, this was only done so that police departments couldn't get sued for not making it to an emergency on time. There is still an obligation to get the job done, especially when the Sheriff is an elected position.

[KingsGambit]

There is still an obligation to get the job done

No there isn't. The ruling clearly establishes that.

[TheWall]

I think that's fundamentally sick, personally. The US has much higher rates of gun violence than nearly other developed country in the world. I think that's nothing to be proud of, and somehow we as Christians need to speak against this gun culture. Obviously gun control isn't going to fix the problem, so the culture needs to change.

I never said I was proud of it.
I want to know though how we would change culture. I think fear mongering needs to stop for one on both sides.

[KingsGambit]

I never said I was proud of it.
I want to know though how we would change culture. I think fear mongering needs to stop for one on both sides.

One of my seminary professors suggested that churches should preach against gun culture (gun collections, glorifying them, etc.) I think that would be a great start.

[TheWall]

I personally would go after the paranoia angel from both sides.
Point out that for many it is a sport and heritage thing. Point out that self defense is OK but it isn't the wild west anymore.
I'm tired of people thinking of each other as boogeymen.

[KingsGambit]

I personally would go after the paranoia angel from both sides.
Point out that for many it is a sport and heritage thing. Point out that self defense is OK but it isn't the wild west anymore.
I'm tired of people thinking of each other as boogeymen.

I just don't think both sides are equally to blame here

[JimL]

I never thought it was a good idea for criminals, primarily violent ones, to have guns. Unfortunately gun control laws have been very ineffective at keeping them out of their hands while disarming honest citizens. A really bad idea.

What has worked have been laws that lock up those who use a firearm in the commission of a crime. This has put some very bad folks behind bars where they belong for a long time and was probably a major factor in the massive drop in violent crime we've experienced since the 90s (about the time these laws were passed).

Wasn't it your argument that we don't enforce the laws we have. Wish you'd make up your mind.