Obama cashes in

[One Bad Pig]

Because he was perceived as being extremely liberal, even though there have been more liberal presidents than Obama. And he's black, but that bit is not publicly acknowledged.

Sorry, you're 0 for 2. He's the worst because he did a bang-up job of exacerbating divisions in the country, badly damaged his own party's standing (especially on the local level), and made the nation weaker on the international stage. I couldn't care less about his skin color; it's quite possibly the most idiotic criterion.

[Starlight]

and made the nation weaker on the international stage.

You must live in some sort of alternative facts universe.

[Starlight]

Pretty much agree with all that except the bit about the "conservative" supreme court.

Well it was the Republican-appointed judges who voted in favor of bribery.

[demi-conservative]

racist neo-Nazi racism KKK

[One Bad Pig]

You must live in some sort of alternative facts universe.

From your perspective, I"m sure I do.

[lilpixieofterror]

C-Span's 2017 survey of presidential historians rated Obama as the US's 12th best ever president.

Can you explain your utterly bizarre ranking of him as worst ever?

[Tassman]

Sorry, you're 0 for 2. He's the worst because he did a bang-up job of exacerbating divisions in the country,

Trump is far worse. In the "Divided states of America: 62% say Trump is driving people apart".

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-division-poll

badly damaged his own party's standing (especially on the local level), and made the nation weaker on the international stage. I couldn't care less about his skin color; it's quite possibly the most idiotic criterion.

No one, but no one, has made the nation weaker on the international stage then Trump. Ever!

"In the closing years of the Obama presidency, a median of 64% had a positive view of the U.S. Today, just 49% are favorably inclined toward America. Again, some of the steepest declines in U.S. image are found among long-standing allies".

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/...us_image-00-0/

[One Bad Pig]

Trump is far worse. In the "Divided states of America: 62% say Trump is driving people apart".

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-division-poll



No one, but no one, has made the nation weaker on the international stage then Trump. Ever!

"In the closing years of the Obama presidency, a median of 64% had a positive view of the U.S. Today, just 49% are favorably inclined toward America. Again, some of the steepest declines in U.S. image are found among long-standing allies".

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/...us_image-00-0/

So your only reply is deflection. Sad!

[Tassman]

So your only reply is deflection. Sad!

Not at all, merely correcting your erroneous facts and supporting mine with authoritative links. Trump is far worse than Obama in driving people apart within the US. And on the international stage the Obama presidency resulted in a much more positive view of the U.S compared to today...especially among long-standing allies".

That's what's "sad'.

[Darth Executor]

Trump is far worse than Obama in driving people apart within the US.

This is a good thing. More and more conservatives are waking up to the fact that liberals are trying to wipe them out. The US should be a lot more divided than it actually is considering the magnitude of the crimes committed by your ideological peers and their supporters.

[One Bad Pig]

Not at all, merely correcting your erroneous facts and supporting mine with authoritative links. Trump is far worse than Obama in driving people apart within the US. And on the international stage the Obama presidency resulted in a much more positive view of the U.S compared to today...especially among long-standing allies".

That's what's "sad'.

That you're relying on opinion polls? Yes, that's sad. A weaker America is naturally going to make other countries happier - that is, until they need help.

Much of Trump's "divisiveness" is due in large part to relentlessly negative media coverage. That said, we're talking about Obama, not Trump. You know, the guy who promised the most transparent administration in history, only to lead the most opaque.

[KingsGambit]

I question the usefulness of a person who is so far outside the political spectrum citing opinion polls by academics who reside mostly within that spectrum, especially when Starlight likes to claim that Obama was an absolutely horrible president . He can't simultaneously hold that opinion while using opinion polls to defend him as a decent president.

[Starlight]

I question the usefulness of a person who is so far outside the political spectrum citing opinion polls by academics who reside mostly within that spectrum, especially when Starlight likes to claim that Obama was an absolutely horrible president . He can't simultaneously hold that opinion while using opinion polls to defend him as a decent president.

I'm pointing out that the reasons that posters on this forum like OBP give for attacking Obama are silly reasons. Some of them are demonstrably false (e.g. that he lowered international opinion of the US) and show a disconnection with reality on OBP's part.

Are you suggesting it's inappropriate for me to cite a consensus view of US academics, while also having my own view that differs...?

Basically it boils down to the fact that attacks on Obama from the right of the political spectrum are by and large pretty stupid ones that aren't based in reality, and Fox News made fools of themselves his entire presidency by going after him for Tan Suits, Dijon mustard, Michelle wanting people to eat carrots, and saluting with a latte. Unfortunately because of the way the US media bubble operates, Democratic presidents largely only get critiqued from the right wing in the US and Republican presidents largely only from the left wing.

So the US bubble is a bit blind with regards to Obama's failures from a left-wing perspective, and unfortunately Americans tend to have a patriotic willful deafness to international commentary on anything that occurs in America. But as it happens, Obama had plenty of problems from a left-wing perspective: He extended US drone strikes to 7 different countries with the government's own report on the strikes noting that 90% of the deaths caused were the wrong people, he became the first US president to spend his 8 years at war, he voluntarily looked "forward not backwards" with regard to prosecuting crimes like torture and collapsing the world economy, and he ultimately achieved nothing with regard to significantly decreasing political corruption in the US. But those aren't things any US Conservative leaders admit are bad, because when they're not cheer-leading for war, or bathing in financial corruption to a mindblowing extent, they are the ones doing the torture and trying to destroy the world economy a second time around.

Nonetheless, Obama was obviously orders of magnitude better than Bush and Trump on most issues. And people like OBP seem to live in some sort of parallel universe of alternative-facts where they really can't grasp that basic reality. Bush's administration was the one actually doing the torture and the economic collapse that Obama overlooked. And Trump... well... Like, Trump is clearly the worst president in the last hundred years in the US, perhaps ever, and Bush clearly the second-worst in the last century. But OBP is somehow willfully blind to that. It's quite phenomenal. It's not as if that is "Starlight having a weird opinion", it's an opinion shared by pretty much all international commentators as well as US academic experts, as observed in the C-Span presidential rankings.