Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Originally posted by Charles View PostMany very long quotes and very little analysis.
Originally posted by Charles View PostThe papal condemnation clearly points to his ideas being contradictory to scripture.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd...? Nothing there contradicts the article at Answers in Genesis.
The primary issue was that Galileo was asked to refrain from treating an unproven hypothesis as if it was true. In Galileo's own words, "Lord Cardinal Bellarmine told me that Copernicus's opinion could be held suppositionally, as Copernicus himself had held it."
Then there's the following illustrating just how personal and politically motivated the charges against Galileo really were:
It continues:
Galileo eventually published his book after some political maneuvering; however:
Then the trial began:
So like I've been saying, this wasn't a case of science versus religion but a political exercise by Galileo's enemies. The fact that some of the judges were in favor of the book's continued publication is proof enough of that. The changes they wanted, and which were earlier requested by Urban, were to present the heliocentric hypothesis as more speculative whereas Galileo presented it as a proven theory despite his lack of proofs.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThis is what we would call summary dismissal without bothering to actually evaluate. You should be aware that essentially all sources spin to some extent. Even highly biased sources, when the bias is noted, can contain useful information.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAs demonstrated by the facts, it wasn't anywhere as simple or straightforward as that.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThe facts clearly demonstrate that he was blamed for contradicting the Bible's geocentric world view. It is not called simple it is called a fact. And a fact that contradicts your agenda."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Charles View PostI knew all that (apart from your presentation not being too exact) but did not get an answer. Can you prove Shuny wrong when he said: "It is a fact the Martin Luther and many if not most Christians believed it, as well as a literal Genesis Creation relying on the testimony of the Church Fathers."?
What Shunny pointed to was the well known fact that many people held and defended the view based on the testimony of the Church Fathers. He did not claim that the view in itself in all understandings of it would have to be religious but pointed to a fact that you are yet to adress, namely that many people held to this view and defended it because of the testimony of the Church Fathers.
who the hell is even talking about Luther? I was talking about Copernicus questioning geocentrism. it was a scientific theory that everyone believed. It was the consensus and copernicus dared question it. like scientists are supposed to do (as even JimL said)
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shuny's argument was a non-sequitur. just like yours.Last edited by Sparko; 09-24-2017, 06:30 AM.
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostGive it up MM. No matter your spin, you can't win!Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostYou are aware that Pope Urban VIII allowed Galileo to write his book under the condition that he gave arguments for and against the heliocentric model, right? If Galileo would have been more careful, he would have been fine. Even Wikipedia says this much, did you even bother to read a thing before you opened your mouth?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Charles View PostI knew all that (apart from your presentation not being too exact) but did not get an answer. Can you prove Shuny wrong when he said: "It is a fact the Martin Luther and many if not most Christians believed it, as well as a literal Genesis Creation relying on the testimony of the Church Fathers."?
"Hilary and Augustine, almost the two greatest lights of the church, hold that the world was created instantaneously and all at the same time, not successively in the course of six days."
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThis is funny. Chuckles criticized me for not providing analysis. You're accusing me of spin. Why don't you guys coordinate your arguments so you're not openly contradicting each other.
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostYou are aware that Pope Urban VIII allowed Galileo to write his book under the condition that he gave arguments for and against the heliocentric model, right? If Galileo would have been more careful, he would have been fine. Even Wikipedia says this much, did you even bother to read a thing before you opened your mouth?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postwho the hell is even talking about Luther? I was talking about Copernicus questioning geocentrism. it was a scientific theory that everyone believed. It was the consensus and copernicus dared question it. like scientists are supposed to do (as even JimL said)
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shuny's argument was a non-sequitur. just like yours.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt seems he didn't even read his own source. He just cherry-picked a few quotes that he thought would support his argument and then ignored everything else. When I provided extensive quotations from the source he presented and which undermined his argument, he weakly criticized me for not providing "analysis".
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Originally posted by Charles View PostYou can actually use quotations as spin since it gives the impression that quite a lot speaks in favour of your case and you can ignore the parts that do not.
Originally posted by Charles View PostYou have still not really confronted the quotes pointing directly to Scripture as a reason to oppose heliocentrism so perhaps you think it works?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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