Abrams calls for removal of Confederate faces off Stone Mountain

[Roy]

Yes I recounted the recent history of leftist violence - and? And I said they started it, not that they were the only one doing violence.

"the bricks and bottles are only going one way"

seer definitely said that the left were the only ones engaged in that particular form of violence.

[seer]

Nonsense! You continue to do what Trump himself did in pandering to the likes of you and your ilk, namely blaming both sides equally for the deadly violence in Charlottesville.

Where did Trump say that the violence was equal? He said there was violence on both sides - that was a fact.

Whilst most people don't support the violence of either side, the fact is that it was initiated by the White Supremacists in a resurgence of KKK fascism encouraged by Trump's racism. Antifa was merely reacting to what the fascists started.

Where is you evidence that White Supremacists started the violence in Charlottesville? And do I need to link to the violence started by Antifa in Boston, the Portland May Day Riots, Berkeley where there were no White Supremacists around?

[Roy]

Here is the sequence of events as far as I recall:

Right wing extremists were ticked off at the tearing down of the statues. The KKK and NeoNazis show up (with a permit) and stage a protest. They are not fighting but they are wearing armor and carrying torches and other things that can be used as weapons.

Other things that are weapons. Pepper spray. Clubs. Guns.

The Antifa and BLM show up, also carrying weapons. They have no permit.

The idiot police do not keep them apart.

The Antifa and BLM get worked up and start throwing bottles and rocks.

Are you sure? The violence was widespread, with many groups involved, and many incidents leading up to it, starting on the Friday night, with (based on eyewitness reports) both sides getting worked up, screaming slogans and insults, throwing missiles etc. In some cases the neo-Nazis struck first, in others it was the counter-protestors. Sometimes antifa attacked the supremacists, sometimes the neo-Nazis charged blockade lines.

Your scenario is too simplistic.

[Roy]

are you being obtuse on purpose?

IN HIS VIDEO the bottles and bricks were only going one way.

Were they?

[Roy]

sure repeat it. But if this is your typical nitpicking nanny BS...

and here is the video Seer was talking about. This is before the all out fighting started. It is shot from the Nazi side. You can see the antifa throwing bottles and such trying to start something.

As has already been pointed out, the first bottle thrown in that video was thrown by some-one on the Nazi side (at 0:22).

Both sides were trying to start something. Why are you only blaming one?

[Bill the Cat]

As has already been pointed out, the first bottle thrown in that video was thrown by the neo-Nazis (at 0:22).

No, it was thrown by ONE person.

[seer]

As has already been pointed out, the first bottle thrown in that video was thrown by the neo-Nazis (at 0:22).

No Roy, the majority of the bottles came one way, and before the first bottle that you are speaking of there was a man is on the ground, being helped up, and had to be helped to walk away. It is pretty obvious that he was somehow injured.

[Roy]

No, it was thrown by ONE person.

Post amended. I hereby concede the role of nit-picker.

[Sparko]

Other things that are weapons. Pepper spray. Clubs. Guns.Are you sure? The violence was widespread, with many groups involved, and many incidents leading up to it, starting on the Friday night, with (based on eyewitness reports) both sides getting worked up, screaming slogans and insults, throwing missiles etc. In some cases the neo-Nazis struck first, in others it was the counter-protestors. Sometimes antifa attacked the supremacists, sometimes the neo-Nazis charged blockade lines.

Your scenario is too simplistic.

well show me different. Show me a video of the KKK or Nazis starting a fight. The Antifa went there to start a fight. That is a fact. The KKK/Nazis were there EXPECTING a fight. But as far as I can tell watching the videos, the Antifa et al started the actual violence by attacking the KKK/Nazis first. There was another rally with the KKK there just a week earlier and there were no Antifa there. a few BLM. Guess what? There was no fight. It was peaceful. mostly. Afterwards some protestors refused to leave (counter protestors apparently) and the police had to use some tear gas and arrested some people. But the KKK/Nazis did not fight anyone or start anything.

http://www.c-ville.com/kkk-rally-pea.../#.WbAKaNGQyUk

[Roy]

well show me different. Show me a video of the KKK or Nazis starting a fight. The Antifa went there to start a fight. That is a fact. The KKK/Nazis were there EXPECTING a fight. But as far as I can tell watching the videos, the Antifa et al started the actual violence by attacking the KKK/Nazis first. There was another rally with the KKK there just a week earlier and there were no Antifa there. a few BLM. Guess what? There was no fight. It was peaceful. mostly. Afterwards some protestors refused to leave (counter protestors apparently) and the police had to use some tear gas and arrested some people. But the KKK/Nazis did not fight anyone or start anything.

http://www.c-ville.com/kkk-rally-pea.../#.WbAKaNGQyUk

I've already spent far too long trawling through eyewitness accounts.

[Sparko]

I've already spent far too long trawling through eyewitness accounts.

Then you have no room to complain about my "scenario"

[Jedidiah]

I've already spent far too long trawling through eyewitness accounts.

The point is that it is dishonest to say that only the KKK and crew are guilty. There are two lawless groups involved here, both are completely in the wrong. When someone says such a thing it is considered to be support for the KKK and crew. This is a total lie. I see both as equally guilty and dishonest accusations will not change my view.

[Bill the Cat]

Post amended. I hereby concede the role of nit-picker.

It's not nit-picking. I blame individuals, not groups. Each of us is responsible for our own behavior and no one else.

[One Bad Pig]

If it's indeed snipped out of context, you should be able to highlight the part of seer's post where he says/suggests/implies that some-one other than BLM/Antifa/left/communists was guilty.

Here's the full text: "Well they started it, the left has been showing violence for the last year. A congressman, and three others, shot by a leftist, 5 cops in Dallas killed by a Black Lives Matters follower, countless properties destroyed by Antifa. And in Virginia it was the left that started throwing bottles and bricks. Look at my video in this thread and find others on line, the bricks and bottles are only going one way. And if the leftists did not show up in this latest incident there would have been no violence."

He definitely says that only the left were guilty of throwing missiles. Where does he place any blame on the right?

He said that the left STARTED the throwing of objects. That strongly implies that both sides subsequently engaged in doing so. If he'd wanted to blame ONLY the left, he would have said that ONLY the left threw objects. You are extraordinarily good at refusing to see the forest for the trees sometimes.

[Tassman]

The point is that it is dishonest to say that only the KKK and crew are guilty. There are two lawless groups involved here, both are completely in the wrong. When someone says such a thing it is considered to be support for the KKK and crew. This is a total lie. I see both as equally guilty and dishonest accusations will not change my view.

There should be no real difficulty in condemning Nazis, white supremacists and the Ku Klux Klan...as people from all sides, nationally and internationally have recognised. There is no moral equivalency between these despicable people and those who oppose them. Only Trump and his morally challenged core supporters seem to think there is. Sad!