Biden's FBI authorized 'use of deadly force when necessary' during Mar-a-Lago raid

[CivilDiscourse]

Only in "Trump-Land" can a statement that was explicitly designed to LIMIT the use of deadly force, and is pretty much standard boiler plate in any FBI search/seize warrant, be turned into an "FBI hit on Trump." (https://apnews.com/article/fact-chec...f108e4911f191e). Why is it that everything that comes out of Mr. Trump's mouth or from the tips of his fingers is picked up and echoed by his entire base without any serious thought or investigation into its truth. Mr. Trump has told us, over and over again, that he will lie to us if it gets him something he wants. When a man shows you who he is...believe him.

It's disheartening to see the contradiction between your two messages. In your earlier post, you eloquently urged against treating individuals with differing political views as enemies, emphasizing the importance of dialogue and understanding in a democracy. However, your subsequent post undermines this sentiment.

In your earlier message, you stated: "I am not your enemy. I am your fellow American citizen... Disagreement does not make me your enemy." This sentiment resonates with a call for unity and mutual respect, urging us to see past political differences and recognize each other as fellow citizens.

However, in your recent post, you directly criticize Trump and his supporters, stating: "Why is it that everything that comes out of Mr. Trump's mouth or from the tips of his fingers is picked up and echoed by his entire base without any serious thought or investigation into its truth." This accusatory language not only contradicts your earlier call for understanding but also perpetuates the very divisiveness you sought to address.

By labeling Trump and his supporters as uncritical and gullible, you inadvertently reinforce the idea of viewing individuals with differing political beliefs as enemies. This undermines the spirit of unity and dialogue that you championed in your earlier message.

Let's strive for consistency in our messaging and actions, ensuring that we uphold the principles of respect, understanding, and unity across political lines, as you advocated for in your earlier post.

[Diogenes]

The obsession conservatives on this forum have with JimL is weird.

JimL seems like a totally normal person. He watches mainstream media. He has totally run of the mill ideas about politics that he gets from what he watches. He debates totally reasonably about stuff as a result. Overall, he comes across as a totally normal guy. Possibly the most normal person on this forum.


And you conservatives go ballistic about him. In and of itself, that shows you're really weird and unhinged people. When you're confronted with a normal person, you lose the plot.

I would agree that JimL seems like a "totally normal person".

ETA: I'd add that you and HA are also likely "normal" for your respective countries.

(Of course, what passes as "normal" is indeed the issue.)

[Sam]

Nothing there about any assassination, Sam.

There quite plainly was and you quite plainly responded affirmatively to it.

One wonders if they were hoping for an excuse to legally assassinate President Trump.

...and making sure to document up front that it was legal.

ScreenShot00065.png

-Sam

[Sam]

Those that could have been involved in any shooting would have been OMB's Secret Service detail, unless you envision OMB standing in a door, gun in hand, refusing access. Seriously, what is wrong with you and star?

Cow Poke asked incredulously if anyone here "said or implied that the FBI was there to assassinate Trump?"

I pointed out that, yes, that had been implied, on the first page of the thread and in a post that Cow Poke himself affirmatively responded to.

How those persons' fantasy might play out isn't of interest to me.

-Sam

[Diogenes]

Cow Poke asked incredulously if anyone here "said or implied that the FBI was there to assassinate Trump?"

I pointed out that, yes, that had been implied, on the first page of the thread and in a post that Cow Poke himself affirmatively responded to.

How those persons' fantasy might play out isn't of interest to me.

-Sam

A serious person might think that a night raid on a former president's residence where the other individuals with guns would be another division of the government and lethal force authorized would be ill-advised and that the better course of action would be just showing up in the day time like they would if a similar white-collar document collection order was being enforced.

A serious person would also be aware of past instance regarding lethal force and the government. This same serious person might even object to similar tactics in general if the matter didn't concern Trump.

When you find this serious person, please let me know.

[Sam]

A serious person might think that a night raid on a former president's residence where the other individuals with guns would be another division of the government and lethal force authorized would be ill-advised and that the better course of action would be just showing up in the day time like they would if a similar white-collar document collection order was being enforced.

A serious person would also be aware of past instance regarding lethal force and the government. This same serious person might even object to similar tactics in general if the matter didn't concern Trump.

When you find this serious person, please let me know.

Well, I have no idea what you're talking about. But, then again, neither do you.

Source: FBI Search of Mar-a-Lago. Wikipedia. Accessed 2024.05.25

On August 8, 2022, at 8:39 am, FBI agents searched Trump's residence at Mar-a-Lago for the material specified in a warrant, including classified material.

© Copyright Original Source

My post to Rogue06 was in reference to my post answer Cow Poke's question whether anyone on the thread had said or implied the FBI intended to assassinate Trump. How you jump this far past that factual question is beyond me.

-Sam

[Juvenal]

Let's strive for consistency in our messaging and actions, ensuring that we uphold the principles of respect, understanding, and unity across political lines, as you advocated for in your earlier post.

If "disagreement does not make me your enemy," neither does correcting falsehoods. Even more so when those falsehoods are being deployed in the service of labeling Biden Trump's intended assassin. This is extremely dangerous territory. Trump is falsely promoting Biden as threat to his life.

What do you think is the likely outcome among the crazies with guns.

[Juvenal]

Those that could have been involved in any shooting would have been OMB's Secret Service detail, unless you envision OMB standing in a door, gun in hand, refusing access. Seriously, what is wrong with you and star?

At a rough guess, I'd say they've heard of his latest email campaign.
.

A Trump campaign fundraising email with the subject line “They were authorized to shoot me!” was sent soon after he posted on social media and made even more outrageous claims.

“I nearly escaped death,” it reads. “You know they’re just itching to do the unthinkable. ... Joe Biden was locked & loaded ready to take me out & put my family in danger.”

And in response, you're attacking the messengers.

What is wrong with you?

[Diogenes]

Well, I have no idea what you're talking about. But, then again, neither do you.

Source: FBI Search of Mar-a-Lago. Wikipedia. Accessed 2024.05.25

On August 8, 2022, at 8:39 am, FBI agents searched Trump's residence at Mar-a-Lago for the material specified in a warrant, including classified material.

© Copyright Original Source

My post to Rogue06 was in reference to my post answer Cow Poke's question whether anyone on the thread had said or implied the FBI intended to assassinate Trump. How you jump this far past that factual question is beyond me.

-Sam

Actually, the sources say 9 am when traced back to a twitter post that just says "sources say". The warrant authorized a search begging at sunrise near which is when it likely started (eta this could be an evening pic bur given the position of the light, I'd say it's more than likely early morning).

raid.jpg

All that aside, authorizing lethal force against a former president and future presidential candidate and when the ONLY other people to have guns would have been the Secret Service is just a bad idea. A serious person would realize that such a a unique situation would require more tact.

[Sam]

Actually, the sources say 9 am when traced back to a twitter post that just says "sources say". The warrant authorized a search begging at sunrise near which is when it likely started (eta this could be an evening pic bur given the position of the light, I'd say it's more than likely early morning).

raid.jpg

All that aside, authorizing lethal force against a former president and future presidential candidate and when the ONLY other people to have guns would have been the Secret Service is just a bad idea. A serious person would realize that such a a unique situation would require more tact.

If you're going to harp about being serious, doing a "Well, actually ..." on a post correcting your claim of a "night raid" with the fact that the search warrant was executed in the morning is a ... bold strategy. Even more bold, I'd say, than repeating the already-debunked claim that the relevant DOJ policy is anything but boilerplate text and a restriction on when and how deadly force can be used.

Now the claim becomes not "DOJ authorized deadly force against President Trump for some weird reason!" but "DOJ should have removed their boilerplate text and told law enforcement officers executing a lawful search warrant that they are not authorized, under any circumstances, to use deadly force."

Color me unimpressed.

-Sam

[Stoic]

When the feds found more files at a site where they were twice told was searched and now clear, that should have triggered raids at the other locations.

You can't get a search warrant without showing probable cause that what you are looking for is actually there. And you can't have a raid without a search (or arrest) warrant. This is why Trump's other properties haven't been raided.

IIRC, they found more at his beach house after they searched the primary residence. So the "cooperation" consisted largely of trying to mislead.

And you don't need a raid when the owner of the place you want to search says, "Go ahead".

[Diogenes]

If you're going to harp about being serious, doing a "Well, actually ..." on a post correcting your claim of a "night raid" with the fact that the search warrant was executed in the morning is a ... bold strategy.

I have no issue conceding it wasn't "at night",

Even more bold, I'd say, than repeating the already-debunked claim that the relevant DOJ policy is anything but boilerplate text and a restriction on when and how deadly force can be used.

I understand it was boilerplate.

Now the claim becomes not "DOJ authorized deadly force against President Trump for some weird reason!"

Show me where I said as much.

but "DOJ should have removed their boilerplate text and told law enforcement officers executing a lawful search warrant that they are not authorized, under any circumstances, to use deadly force."

Again, the only other individuals with guns would have been the Secret Service. It's not like the FBI was serving a bench warrant somewhere in Idaho. The suggestion is more or less to one to lessen the image of the US as a banana republic.

Color me unimpressed.

-Sam

Nor am I of you.

[Juvenal]

Again, the only other individuals with guns would have been the Secret Service.

You've never been to the US, have you.

[Sam]

I have no issue conceding it wasn't "at night",

I understand it was boilerplate.

Show me where I said as much.

Again, the only other individuals with guns would have been the Secret Service. It's not like the FBI was serving a bench warrant somewhere in Idaho. The suggestion is more or less to one to lessen the image of the US as a banana republic.


Nor am I of you.

The lack of concession isn't the problem; it's the devolution of the conspiracy to a more and more pitiful level. A "night raid" was invented to make the situation worse. When it was pointed out that contemporaneous reporting put the start of executing the warrant at 8:39 AM, the invention had to change to a maybe-at-first-light raid. Well, that's wrong, too: the FBI email chain signaling the beginning of the exercise starts at 7:36 AM, with a call to Trump's attorney at 9:14 AM. CCTV issues are being resolved from ~9:15 AM to ~10:30 AM, when the FBI email chain declares "We are beginning the search". Dawn at Mar-a-Lago on August 8, 2022 was 6:50 AM.

Similarly, we've moved from the invention that DOJ made the unusual decision to authorize deadly force for executing the search warrant at Mar-a-Lago. When that invention broke apart, the complaint moved to a considerably pettier complaint that DOJ didn't change its SOP or boilerplate text for this search warrant, ostensibly because the assumption that "the only other individuals with guns would have been the Secret Service". And DOJ was supposed to do this "to lessen the image of the US as a banana republic", even though whole whole sense of outrage relies on someone misreading (out of incompetence or malice) standard DOJ policy items that they discovered in unsealed court documents almost a year later.

The whole thing is a demonstration of the Never Admit Being Duped feedback cycle, where everyone understands on a visceral level that what they're complaining about is bogus but since the ability to complain is itself the primary draw, they have to keep on inventing reasons to criticize once the initial claims are exploded.

-Sam

[Cow Poke]

There quite plainly was and you quite plainly responded affirmatively to it.

Ah, so MM "wondered", and I didn't argue. That's the whole of it Sam. You're so full of crap.

I had no idea whatsoever that anybody would have been there to assassinate Trump, nor expressed anything of the sort.