Off With The Catholic's Head...

[seanD]

Of all the criticisms I have heard of the speech this one is probably the most "fair." There is an economic recession no doubt. However, as a mother I can honestly say my "career" is absolutely secondary to my kids and husband. Even my work is aware of this and they are excellent in terms of accomodating that.

We're not quite in a recession yet (technically at least), but inflation is a problem. The issue that most conservatives miss is that the devaluation of the dollar has been a problem for many decades, caused by central and international bankers and their policies, which is why it's become extremely difficult since the 60s (and virtually impossible if you're even slightly above middle class or below today) for a family to make it on one income. And though feminism did a lot to disrupt the family unit, a lot of that was also economic. So, though I get where he's coming from from a political standpoint, it kind of adds salt to the wound when you have a blowhard pro football player who got lucky and basically won the lottery looking down from that situation and lecturing to these struggling middle class families.

[seer]

No, I'm suggesting that many of the criticisms that Butker is being persecuted for Catholic faith are not being made by RCC adherents and none of those criticisms deal with the fact that his comments are being criticized by fellow Catholics.

The point is, as you write, that "Catholic beliefs" are very diverse, with that diversity even including many mutually exclusive beliefs. Butker isn't being criticized for expressing Catholic thought but for expressing a strain of religious social conservatism that is not exclusive to RCC or even really a product of Catholicism per se.

-Sam

It is no about criticizing Butker or disagreeing with some of his beliefs, it is about calling for his firing because of those beliefs.

[seer]

We're not quite in a recession yet (technically at least), but inflation is a problem. The issue that most conservatives miss is that the devaluation of the dollar has been a problem for many decades, caused by central and international bankers and their policies, which is why it's become extremely difficult since the 60s (and virtually impossible if you're even slightly above middle class or below today) for a family to make it on one income. And though feminism did a lot to disrupt the family unit, a lot of that was also economic. So, though I get where he's coming from from a political standpoint, it kind of adds salt to the wound when you have a blowhard pro football player who got lucky and basically won the lottery looking down from that situation and lecturing to these struggling middle class families.

I don't see anything wrong with this:

For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.

[RumTumTugger]

Well a lot of good the backlash did, his jersey is now number one.

Not to mention it is number one in women's sizes

[seanD]

I don't see anything wrong with this:

I'm sure a lot of mothers wish they had husbands who could make millions kicking a ball through a goalpost so they could stay home as homemakers. His use of the word "diabolical" made it seem like mothers working to try and stay afloat financially were doing something wrong. I realize he's attacking feminism, and I get that, but to be perfectly honest, other than some leftists extremists, I would venture and guess most women who are mothers would choose stay-at-home motherhood if they had the financial option, even if they're brainwashed by feminism. Though, I admit it's just an opinion, I would imagine most extreme feminists just don't bother having kids and probably never get married in the first place.

[Terraceth]

I actually think he should be criticized, but not for the reason leftists are criticizing him for. He should be criticized for not empathizing with the families who are out there struggling financially. Though many women would probably prefer to stay home and raise their kids, many don't make millions of dollars kicking a ball through a goalpost, and don't have that option.

I don't think that's what he was saying. Here's the part where he talked about women:

For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.

She is a primary educator to our children. She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father. She is the person that knows me best at my core, and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

I say all of this to you because I have seen it firsthand how much happier someone can be when they disregard the outside noise and move closer and closer to God's will in their life. Isabelle's dream of having a career might not have come true, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, “Heck, No.”

I'm not really a fan of him presumptuously saying "I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world" as if he can read their minds, but I don't see him as saying women needs stay home and raise their kids. That said, the whole thing is kind of confusing and it's not clear exactly what point he is trying to make. He's obviously praising homemakers, but he doesn't seem to be saying they need to be that, given the congratulations to the women for graduating (why would they even need to do that if they should just be homemakers?) and the statement, without apparent criticism, of some of them having successful careers. But then he also refers to "diabolical lies" being told to them, but he doesn't clearly state what the lies are. Is the lie supposed to be that they shouldn't ever be homemakers? I feel like the point he's trying to make is that being a homemaker is a vocation to be celebrated, though not required for all women, but the way he goes about saying it is confusing.

[seanD]

I don't think that's what he was saying. Here's the part where he talked about women:

For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.

She is a primary educator to our children. She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father. She is the person that knows me best at my core, and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

I say all of this to you because I have seen it firsthand how much happier someone can be when they disregard the outside noise and move closer and closer to God's will in their life. Isabelle's dream of having a career might not have come true, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, “Heck, No.”

I'm not really a fan of him presumptuously saying "I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world" as if he can read their minds, but I don't see him as saying women needs stay home and raise their kids. That said, the whole thing is kind of confusing and it's not clear exactly what point he is trying to make. He's obviously praising homemakers, but he doesn't seem to be saying they need to be that, given the congratulations to the women for graduating (why would they even need to do that if they should just be homemakers?) and the statement, without apparent criticism, of some of them having successful careers. But then he also refers to "diabolical lies" being told to them, but he doesn't clearly state what the lies are. Is the lie supposed to be that they shouldn't ever be homemakers? I feel like the point he's trying to make is that being a homemaker is a vocation to be celebrated, though not required for all women, but the way he goes about saying it is confusing.

The "diabolical lies" he was referring to is leftism, which (for some strange reason) discourages and even vilifies women wanting to stay home and be mothers. But leftism is a diabolical ideology to begin with, so this isn't a surprise. This is what the left is naturally criticizing him for, and why conservatives are rightly defending him. The problem is (like a lot of conservatives) he's not regarding economic factors and women who are forced to work to say afloat financially. The fact he doesn't acknowledge that part is what he should be criticized about. Polls clearly show most women prefer to be mothers to underage children and would choose to do that if they had the financial option (like if they were married to a pro athlete), and I believe that's the case because women are driven by an innate urge to do this, which clashes with and defies political views. And by him ignoring the economic factor (especially in times like these), just adds salt to the wound to women who have that urge but are incapable of it financially. And the fact he puts a religious spin on it, implying women are somehow not Godly, makes it even worse.

[seer]

I'm sure a lot of mothers wish they had husbands who could make millions kicking a ball through a goalpost so they could stay home as homemakers. His use of the word "diabolical" made it seem like mothers working to try and stay afloat financially were doing something wrong. I realize he's attacking feminism, and I get that, but to be perfectly honest, other than some leftists extremists, I would venture and guess most women who are mothers would choose stay-at-home motherhood if they had the financial option, even if they're brainwashed by feminism. Though, I admit it's just an opinion, I would imagine most extreme feminists just don't bother having kids and probably never get married in the first place.

You don't have to make millions. My son's wife had a business degree from Boston College, was in the corporate world for a number of years. She gave it up to be stay at home mom (mostly she works 15 hours a week as a librarian). They live very modestly, small apartment, the three kids (two girls and a boy) share the same bed room, one car, etc... And it has paid off - these are three of the most well balanced kids I know, all Christians, honors in school, all on the TAG program (math and reading). The oldest (girl 11) is class president, the two oldest can read music well and play instruments. Their teachers (to the person) love them, very well behaved and helpful.

[Sparko]

I guess Cancel Culture is alive and well. Why would expressing his personal Catholic beliefs at a Catholic school be grounds to remove him from his professional career? It's nuts.

[seer]

It's nuts.

Well they are leftists, so....

[One Bad Pig]

It's a bit amusing to see people arguing that this is about "Catholic beliefs", given responses from actual Catholics regarding Butker's speech:

Source: Benedictine Sisters denounce Harrison Butker’s speech as his jersey sales rise. The Athletic Staff. The New York Times. 2024.05.18

The Benedictine Sisters of Mount St. Scholastica spoke out against Harrison Butker’s controversial graduation speech at Benedictine College, saying they “reject a narrow definition of what it means to be Catholic” and “the assertion that being a homemaker is the highest calling for a woman.”

During the commencement speech at the Catholic school in Atchison, Kansas, the Kansas City Chiefs kicker addressed gender ideologies and said a woman’s most important title is “homemaker.” He also referred to Pride Month as an example of the “deadly sins,” and said he wanted the graduating class to prevent political leaders from interfering with social issues that impact their relationship with the church.

In a statement released Friday, the sisters of Mount St. Scholastica said they “do not believe that Harrison Butker’s comments in his 2024 Benedictine College commencement address represent the Catholic, Benedictine, liberal arts college that our founders envisioned and in which we have been so invested.

“Instead of promoting unity in our church, our nation, and the world, his comments seem to have fostered division. … We sisters have dedicated our lives to God and God’s people, including the many women whom we have taught and influenced during the past 160 years. These women have made a tremendous difference in the world in their roles as wives and mothers and through their God-given gifts in leadership, scholarship, and their careers.”

The Benedictine Sisters are a founding institution and sponsor of Benedictine College, according to the Mount St. Scholastica website.

© Copyright Original Source

Given that Butker extolled the role of women as wives and mothers and said nothing whatsoever negative about having a career, being in leadership, etc., this smells like a political CYA which should be beneath the dignity of a monastic foundation.

and "tradcath" US Catholic conservatism this week:

Source: Pope Francis says US Catholic conservatives have 'suicidal attitude'. Reuters. 2024.05.16

Pope Francis said his conservative critics within the Roman Catholic Church in the United States are trapped in a "suicidal attitude," according to an interview with CBS.

During the April 24 interview with "60 Minutes" that will air this Sunday, Pope Francis was asked his thoughts on the conservative backlash against his papacy, with many of his critics being American clergy members.

Pope Francis responded by saying a conservative is someone who "clings to something and does not want to see beyond that."

"It is a suicidal attitude," the pontiff said, according to a brief transcript excerpt made available by CBS Thursday.

"Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to consider situations from the past, but quite another is to be closed up inside a dogmatic box."

© Copyright Original Source

-Sam

That a pope would say such things is rather revealing of his lack of fitness as supreme pontiff, IMO. It is in line with the rest of his papacy, however, so it doesn't surprise me.

[seanD]

You don't have to make millions. My son's wife had a business degree from Boston College, was in the corporate world for a number of years. She gave it up to be stay at home mom (mostly she works 15 hours a week as a librarian). They live very modestly, small apartment, the three kids (two girls and a boy) share the same bed room, one car, etc... And it has paid off - these are three of the most well balanced kids I know, all Christians, honors in school, all on the TAG program (math and reading). The oldest (girl 11) is class president, the two oldest can read music well and play instruments. Their teachers (to the person) love them, very well behaved and helpful.

Personally, I'm all for modest living, but this would be analogous to wealthy liberals who support "Bidenomics" looking down on the struggling middle class and the poor to stop whining about how hard it is. Sure it's possible, anything's possible, but that doesn't go over very well when a wealthy Christian looks down on families struggling and implies they're not being Godly for wanting more for their families than a modest lifestyle

[seer]

Sure it's possible, anything's possible, but that doesn't go over very well when a wealthy Christian looks down on families struggling and implies they're not being Godly for wanting more for their families than a modest lifestyle

Then they are idiots...

[rogue06]

It's a bit amusing to see people arguing that this is about "Catholic beliefs", given responses from actual Catholics regarding Butker's speech:

Source: Benedictine Sisters denounce Harrison Butker’s speech as his jersey sales rise. The Athletic Staff. The New York Times. 2024.05.18

The Benedictine Sisters of Mount St. Scholastica spoke out against Harrison Butker’s controversial graduation speech at Benedictine College, saying they “reject a narrow definition of what it means to be Catholic” and “the assertion that being a homemaker is the highest calling for a woman.”

During the commencement speech at the Catholic school in Atchison, Kansas, the Kansas City Chiefs kicker addressed gender ideologies and said a woman’s most important title is “homemaker.” He also referred to Pride Month as an example of the “deadly sins,” and said he wanted the graduating class to prevent political leaders from interfering with social issues that impact their relationship with the church.

In a statement released Friday, the sisters of Mount St. Scholastica said they “do not believe that Harrison Butker’s comments in his 2024 Benedictine College commencement address represent the Catholic, Benedictine, liberal arts college that our founders envisioned and in which we have been so invested.

“Instead of promoting unity in our church, our nation, and the world, his comments seem to have fostered division. … We sisters have dedicated our lives to God and God’s people, including the many women whom we have taught and influenced during the past 160 years. These women have made a tremendous difference in the world in their roles as wives and mothers and through their God-given gifts in leadership, scholarship, and their careers.”

The Benedictine Sisters are a founding institution and sponsor of Benedictine College, according to the Mount St. Scholastica website.

© Copyright Original Source

and "tradcath" US Catholic conservatism this week:

Source: Pope Francis says US Catholic conservatives have 'suicidal attitude'. Reuters. 2024.05.16

Pope Francis said his conservative critics within the Roman Catholic Church in the United States are trapped in a "suicidal attitude," according to an interview with CBS.

During the April 24 interview with "60 Minutes" that will air this Sunday, Pope Francis was asked his thoughts on the conservative backlash against his papacy, with many of his critics being American clergy members.

Pope Francis responded by saying a conservative is someone who "clings to something and does not want to see beyond that."

"It is a suicidal attitude," the pontiff said, according to a brief transcript excerpt made available by CBS Thursday.

"Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to consider situations from the past, but quite another is to be closed up inside a dogmatic box."

© Copyright Original Source

-Sam

Have you bothered to listen to what he actually said or do you rely solely on how some critics have characterized it?

[Sparko]

So is it degrading to be a housewife and mother now?