Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostBritain or Sweden would be the nearest unoccupied countries in Europe in 1941.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
It still has.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe "historian" forgets about Switzerland and the large section of France that the Germans didn't occupy. And let's not forget Italy either.
However, Vichy France was hardly benign towards Jews and participated willingly in deportations. Furthermore, by 1942 Germany took the Free Zone in southern France into more direct control, I am surprised that as such a fan of Casablanca you do not recall Renault's comment about having his orders and Rick's quip about Gestapo spank! As for Italy it was one of the Axis powers so was hardly somewhere Jews would have fled in 1941.
Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 05-03-2024, 09:38 AM."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostI did indeed omit Switzerland.
However, Vichy France was hardly benign towards Jews and participated willingly in deportations.
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostFurthermore, by 1942 Germany took the Free Zone in southern France into more direct control
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostI am surprised that as such a fan of Casablanca you do not recall Renault's comment about having his orders and Rick's quip about Gestapo spank! As for Italy it was one of the Axis powers so was hardly somewhere Jews would have fled in 1941.The Holocaust in Italy was the persecution, deportation, and murder of Jews between 1943 and 1945 in the Italian Social Republic, the part of the Kingdom of Italy occupied by Nazi Germany after the Italian surrender on 8 September 1943, during World War II.
One of the first actions that the Italian government took against Italian Jews began in 1938 with the enactment of the Racial Laws of segregation by the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini. These laws stripped away many basic human rights of the Italian Jewish citizens, with Jewish children not being allowed to go to school and Jews forbidden from marrying outside their cultural heritage. Before the Italian surrender in 1943, however, Italy and the Italian occupation zones in Greece, France and Yugoslavia had comparatively been places of relative safety for local Jews and European Jewish refugees. This changed in September 1943, when German forces occupied the country, installed the puppet state of the Italian Social Republic and immediately began persecuting and deporting the Jews found there. Of the population of 38,994 Italian Jews, 7,172 were arrested and became victims of the Shoah. By the war's end, 31,822 Jews remained in the country, having managed to evade deportation while remaining in Italy.[1] The Italian police and Fascist militia played an integral role as the Germans' accessories.
So our resident self-proclaimed "academic historian" didn't get much right here, did she?
You claimed that Germany occupied all the countries they bordered by 1941 but somehow managed to miss Switzerland, Italy and Vichy France. IIRC, Switzerland and Italy alone share nearly 900 miles of border with Germany. That's getting close to twice the distance between Berlin and London, or the distance between Berlin and Moscow.
You also were unaware that the Jews fared far better in Italy and areas that they controlled than they did where Germany was in charge. And you are again having your problem keeping dates straight.
Maybe you should read an actual history book rather than getting your information from watching movies.
ETA: Just checked on something that was bothering me and found that, as I suspected, Liechtenstein was also not occupied during WWIIThough Nazi Germany did have plans for the annexation of Liechtenstein, primarily Operation Tannenbaum, these were never implemented and Liechtenstein's neutrality was not violated during the war.
So that's yet another country the historian didn't know about.Last edited by rogue06; 05-03-2024, 10:30 AM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe discussion is in regards to which countries were "occupied" by the Germans in 1941. Vichy France was not occupied.
Imagine him saying this in 1941 about Germany's neighboring countries refusing to take in Jews
What followed was a perfectly pleasant albeit brief exchange between us.
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe discussion is in regards to which countries were "occupied" by the Germans in 1941. 1942 is not 1941.
The discussion is in regards to which countries were "occupied" by the Germans in 1941. Italy was not occupied by the Germans (until later). Further, Italy was never too keen on persecuting the Jews like the Germans were doing. To be sure they passed some odious legislation in the '30s but nobody was being shipped off to concentration camps until 1943, after Italy surrendered and Germany took over large sections of the country.
The Holocaust in Italy was the persecution, deportation, and murder of Jews between 1943 and 1945 in the Italian Social Republic, the part of the Kingdom of Italy occupied by Nazi Germany after the Italian surrender on 8 September 1943, during World War II.
One of the first actions that the Italian government took against Italian Jews began in 1938 with the enactment of the Racial Laws of segregation by the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini. These laws stripped away many basic human rights of the Italian Jewish citizens, with Jewish children not being allowed to go to school and Jews forbidden from marrying outside their cultural heritage. Before the Italian surrender in 1943, however, Italy and the Italian occupation zones in Greece, France and Yugoslavia had comparatively been places of relative safety for local Jews and European Jewish refugees. This changed in September 1943, when German forces occupied the country, installed the puppet state of the Italian Social Republic and immediately began persecuting and deporting the Jews found there. Of the population of 38,994 Italian Jews, 7,172 were arrested and became victims of the Shoah. By the war's end, 31,822 Jews remained in the country, having managed to evade deportation while remaining in Italy.[1] The Italian police and Fascist militia played an integral role as the Germans' accessories.
So our resident self-proclaimed "academic historian" didn't get much right here, did she?
You claimed that Germany occupied all the countries they bordered by 1941 but somehow managed to miss Switzerland, Italy and Vichy France. IIRC, Switzerland and Italy alone share nearly 900 miles of border with Germany. That's getting close to twice the distance between Berlin and London, or the distance between Berlin and Moscow.
You also were unaware that the Jews fared far better in Italy and areas that they controlled than they did where Germany was in charge. And you are again having your problem keeping dates straight.
Maybe you should read an actual history book rather than getting your information from watching movies.
ETA: Just checked on something that was bothering me and found that, as I suspected, Liechtenstein was also not occupied during WWII
Though Nazi Germany did have plans for the annexation of Liechtenstein, primarily Operation Tannenbaum, these were never implemented and Liechtenstein's neutrality was not violated during the war.
So that's yet another country the historian didn't know about.
I see you have spent a merry hour or so Googling your favourite academic resource."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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I haven't looked at the details of the bill, but base on the commentary, this is really looking like the left's version of "hate speech," only slightly modified to not look leftist.
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