DJT and TDS

[seer]

It just means his cult of personality has deep and broad roots.

Some times Carp you are a fool....

[Mountain Man]

DeSantis lost me when he went to war with Disney over Disney's speech.

That's when I started paying close attention, and the more I saw, the less I liked him.

[carpedm9587]

Some times Carp you are a fool....

Without question.

Now, out of sheer curiosity, do you derive some kind of satisfaction from such posts? Are you under the impression they bother me? I guess I don't see the point.

[seer]

Without question.

Now, out of sheer curiosity, do you derive some kind of satisfaction from such posts? Are you under the impression they bother me? I guess I don't see the point.

Do you get some kind of satisfaction out of calling a significant portion of your fellow American cultists? Your 100 friends who can't make a rational case for Trump - are they cultists? They must be if they have no rational justification...

[carpedm9587]

Do you get some kind of satisfaction out of calling a significant portion of your fellow American cultists?

No. It's very sad, actually.

Your 100 friends who can't make a rational case for Trump - are they cultists?

I'd estimate probably about half of them, but that is based on a lot of factors and is just an estimate.

They must be if they have no rational justification...

That seems to be the general pattern, but not always a predictor. I actually cannot answer the question, "why do they not engage in dialogue." It could be HAVE no rational explanation (indicating a thoughtless following, hence a cult). It could be that they are afraid of engaging (don't like arguing, don't want the spotlight on the moral components, don't want to risk friendships/family, etc.). It could be they are tired of explaining themselves. It could be that they are embarrassed (at some level) of their choice. And it could be dozens of other things I have not thought of. It is hard to come to a conclusion from silence.

And I notice you avoided my question..

[seer]

And I notice you avoided my question..

Actually, your foolishness very sad...

[Mountain Man]

I actually cannot answer the question, "why do they not engage in dialogue."

I think if you were honest with yourself, you would be able to answer it easily. Consider how, despite your supposed best intentions, you were widely perceived as displaying a sneering and condescending attitude in the "A Call to Trumpers/MAGA/Conservatives" thread, and then ask yourself if, perhaps, this is how you also come across in your face-to-face conversations with colleagues. Even in your post above, look at what you assume the other party is thinking when they avoid a discussion with you: they are thoughtlessly following Trump and can't explain themselves, they are afraid of having "the spotlight on their moral components", they are embarrassed, etc. All negative assumptions, and while you might think you have done a good job of hiding your biases, the evidence says otherwise. The fact that you get the same reaction from your colleagues that you get from us is telling.

[carpedm9587]

I think if you were honest with yourself, you would be able to answer it easily.

I always find openings like this interesting. According to this, if I come to a different conclusion, it will be because "I am not being honest with myself." It doesn't leave a lot of room for discussion, does it.

Consider how, despite your supposed best intentions, you were widely perceived as displaying a sneering and condescending attitude in the "A Call to Trumpers/MAGA/Conservatives" thread, and then ask yourself if, perhaps, this is how you also come across in your face-to-face conversations with colleagues.

I do, regularly. I check in with folks. I seem to have very little difficulty in engaging in discussions with all of these same people on pretty much any other topic. The sole exception is the topic of DJT. On that topic, it does not matter if I say, "help me understand," or "I'd really like to under stand this," or "can you tell me about X," or any other "good practice" communication technique. If I ask ANY question whatsoever, the conversation ends. Tone does not matter. Timing does not matter. Locale does not matter.

Even in your post above, look at what you assume the other party is thinking when they avoid a discussion with you: they are thoughtlessly following Trump and can't explain themselves, they are afraid of having "the spotlight on their moral components", they are embarrassed, etc. All negative assumptions, and while you might think you have done a good job of hiding your biases, the evidence says otherwise. The fact that you get the same reaction from your colleagues that you get from us is telling.

So, I have gone back and reread my OP (again). None of this is in there. In the post you mention, these are listed as "possibilities" for why people are not responding, in response to the singular accusation that I thought people "had no rational justification." I was pointing out that this is only one of many possibilities. Yes, the list is pretty much negatives. I have to admit I cannot think of a "positive" reason for the "great disconnect." What "positive" reasons do you have to suggest for the almost universal unwillingness to engage?

[Mountain Man]

I always find openings like this interesting. According to this, if I come to a different conclusion, it will be because "I am not being honest with myself." It doesn't leave a lot of room for discussion, does it.



I do, regularly. I check in with folks. I seem to have very little difficulty in engaging in discussions with all of these same people on pretty much any other topic. The sole exception is the topic of DJT. On that topic, it does not matter if I say, "help me understand," or "I'd really like to under stand this," or "can you tell me about X," or any other "good practice" communication technique. If I ask ANY question whatsoever, the conversation ends. Tone does not matter. Timing does not matter. Locale does not matter.



So, I have gone back and reread my OP (again). None of this is in there. In the post you mention, these are listed as "possibilities" for why people are not responding, in response to the singular accusation that I thought people "had no rational justification." I was pointing out that this is only one of many possibilities. Yes, the list is pretty much negatives. I have to admit I cannot think of a "positive" reason for the "great disconnect." What "positive" reasons do you have to suggest for the almost universal unwillingness to engage?

You're right, it couldn't possibly be you. It's everybody else who is the problem.

[carpedm9587]

You're right, it couldn't possibly be you. It's everybody else who is the problem.

Actually - I would consider it a combination. My OP in the other thread was problematic. My own anger at the state of affairs in the U.S. leaks through. I need to work harder on phrasing things to avoid terms that are likely to elicit a negative reaction. I am also dealing with people who converse as you and Seer and Sparko do. History suggests that I can make all of the changes in the world, and it will not change the response I get from those, like you, who simply seem to enjoy trolling, baiting, and ridiculing (this response is a good case in point). So I would say it is a mixed bag. I'll have to work on my end of things. I'll have to leave your end to you.

I take it you have no response to the question I asked?

[carpedm9587]

Actually, your foolishness very sad...

And I notice you still avoided the question...

Be that as it may, what exactly do you find foolish that is so sad to you?"

[seer]

And I notice you still avoided the question...

What question are you talking about?

[carpedm9587]

What question are you talking about?

NVM, Seer. Probably a pointless exercise anyway. You’re already ignoring yet another question.

And then you wonder why the impression is left that so many Trump supporters don’t want to engage and just want to throw dirt.

[seer]

NVM, Seer. Probably a pointless exercise anyway. You’re already ignoring yet another question.

And then you wonder why the impression is left that so many Trump supporters don’t want to engage and just want to throw dirt.

What are you talking about? I have given clear reasons why I support Trump.

[carpedm9587]

What are you talking about? I have given clear reasons why I support Trump.

Like I said, Seer, the discussion seems to be pointless. I have no desire to continue asking questions and just having them ignored. If you decide to answer the simple questions I asked, I'll respond further. If not, then it would appear this discussion is at an end.