The imbalance in casualties

[Esther]

Depends. Do you consider revision of history to include adapting one's views to more detailed and previously unknown information becoming known and discovered?

According to the wikipedia definition of revisionist history, no.

Revisionist history may refer to:

• Historical revisionism, the reinterpretation of orthodox views on evidence, motivations, and decision-making processes surrounding a historical event
• Historical negationism, sometimes called "historical revisionism" or "revisionist history", the distortion of the historical record such that certain events appear to have occurred and/or impacted history in a way that is in drastic disagreement with the historical record and/or consensus, and usually meant to advance a socio-political view or agenda.

[Esther]

Has the consensus of historians on the 6 day war been revised over time to be less favorable to Israel as new evidence came to light? Yes. Initially there were fairly broad assumptions made in favor of Israel's actions with the assumption that it was a justified pre-emptive attack. However over time the evidence that came to light consistently showed that to be wrong, and the consensus of historians shifted over time as a result. I think you would struggle to find a current historian who thinks Israel's attack in the 6 day war was motivated by the belief that Arab nations were about to attack them, as there seems to now be sufficient evidence from within both Israel and Arab nations to make it clear that that was not the case.

It is not a case of historians being revisionist for the sake of it. It's a case of being guided by evidence.

My response is the same as to Gond.

[Diogenes]

Israel has been kicking Palestinians out of their homes and field on the West Bank for years, and placing Jews in these.
It's been offensive for a long time.

As it's been said by Hypatia, "human migration has a long history".

[Ronson]

The Guardian has some before and after satellite photos where you can scroll from side to side and see how Israel has levelled entire city blocks in Gaza. Nearly every building in the images is now covered in dust and debris from the destroyed buildings. So many towns and cities so badly damaged . Reminds me of when my city was hit by a major earthquake. But this is intentional and done by humans, which makes it so much worse. And it seems to be every major town and city in northern Gaza.

Al-Zahra lies to the south of Gaza City, close the Mediterranean Sea. Earlier this week, Agence France-Presse reported that Israeli missiles had flattened more than 20 buildings in the area.

One shellshocked resident told the news agency that he was unsure where to go or how to protect his family after the strikes.

“Even in my worst nightmares, I never thought this could be possible,” Rami Abu Wazna told AFP.

These people are certainly being terrorized. And I'd remind people that Israel doesn't appear to be under any current threat from them. These bombardments are from Israel's ongoing retaliation for the attacks 3 weeks ago, not out of any need to protect itself in the present.

Something is confusing me about those before-and-after slide images. Starting with the third one, the buildings appear taller in the bombing aftermath than they do in the 'before' images. I can imagine such a discrepancy can be attributed to the angle, but the angle should be consistent based on the distance and road layout.

[Sparko]

Does the "real world" work in complete ignorance of the past, with some sort of amnesiac presentism? If so, that seems bad.

I am not endorsing an eye for an eye mentality. If you read my OP, I am generally much for favorable towards 0x responses than 1x responses to killings, in terms of foregoing revenge for civilian casualties. However, I acknowledge that other people in the world have an "eye for an eye" mentality and that it has a long pedigree, and that not everyone is the near-pacifist I am.

What the OP is rejecting is anything above 1x in responses to killings. Israel keeps doing above 1x. Consistently. For years and years. That is a huge problem I have with them. I have to condemn that in no uncertain terms. The fact that anyone can look at that and in any way defend Israel's actions, is morally disgusting.

The whole point of war is to kill more of their side than they do of your side, isn't it? It's not to match casualties one to one. It is to make the enemy suffer so much that they surrender and regret attacking you in the first place. That is what war is. It isn't a game and it isn't pretty. That's why war is such a tragedy for everyone.

[Cow Poke]

The whole point of war is to kill more of their side than they do of your side, isn't it? It's not to match casualties one to one. It is to make the enemy suffer so much that they surrender and regret attacking you in the first place. That is what war is. It isn't a game and it isn't pretty. That's why war is such a tragedy for everyone.

Hamas before launching their horrendous attack on Israel - "we want Israel wiped off the face of the earth".
Israel responds, as Hamas knew they would, with devastating retaliation.
Hamas after Israel responds - "OK, that's it! Now we REALLY want Israel wiped off the face of the earth".

[Sparko]

Totally irrelevant in general. People groups don't get to have land in proportion to their population. Plenty of people groups have no countries. Plenty of countries have higher population densities than others. In general, no one, thinks "oh my country has a higher population density than yours, so I get to take part of yours now" is a thing.

Sounds like a perfectly good argument of why Palestinians have no right to claim that the land of Israel should be Palestine.

[Diogenes]

My response is the same as to Gond.

When dealing with Star specifically, you always have to keep in mind his Marxism (which is also prevalent amount the social "sciences"). Star would likely have no problem with Egypt's violation of the UN. Blockades and closure of airspace are common acts of aggression and even Star would consider them aggressive acts when done by the US.

[Esther]

Do you think thast the razing of Gaza and the killing (even genocide) of Palestinian refugees is defensive at this time?



Israel has been kicking Palestinians out of their homes and field on the West Bank for years, and placing Jews in these.
It's been offensive for a long time.

I believe that the Jews are in the minority and did not start this war. Of course it is always heart=breaking to see the cost of war and as Christians we know God loves all the people of the the world and we pray for peace.

[Sparko]

Something is confusing me about those before-and-after slide images. Starting with the third one, the buildings appear taller in the bombing aftermath than they do in the 'before' images. I can imagine such a discrepancy can be attributed to the angle, but the angle should be consistent based on the distance and road layout.

I saw that too. Like this:

Before:
after-before.jpg
After
after.jpg

[Gondwanaland]

According to the wikipedia definition of revisionist history, no.

Revisionist history may refer to:

• Historical revisionism, the reinterpretation of orthodox views on evidence, motivations, and decision-making processes surrounding a historical event
• Historical negationism, sometimes called "historical revisionism" or "revisionist history", the distortion of the historical record such that certain events appear to have occurred and/or impacted history in a way that is in drastic disagreement with the historical record and/or consensus, and usually meant to advance a socio-political view or agenda.

Well there's your answer then.

[Gondwanaland]

Something is confusing me about those before-and-after slide images. Starting with the third one, the buildings appear taller in the bombing aftermath than they do in the 'before' images. I can imagine such a discrepancy can be attributed to the angle, but the angle should be consistent based on the distance and road layout.

It's an artifact of the angle and optical illusion due to that. Lighting also likely playing a role

[Ronson]

I saw that too. Like this:

Before:
after-before.jpg
After
after.jpg

So, I'm having trouble seeing what exactly has been bombed. The difference between the two is mostly a layer of gray concrete dust.

[Ronson]

Hamas before launching their horrendous attack on Israel - "we want Israel wiped off the face of the earth".
Israel responds, as Hamas knew they would, with devastating retaliation.
Hamas after Israel responds - "OK, that's it! Now we REALLY want Israel wiped off the face of the earth".

That reminds me of a Get Smart episode. A Nazi big game hunter is hunting Max and 99 on an island, and the two rig a booby trap for the hunter. The Nazi says "OK, that's it. No more Mr. Nice Guy!"

[NorrinRadd]

So, I'm having trouble seeing what exactly has been bombed. The difference between the two is mostly a layer of gray concrete dust.

It's weird. It looks like each frame is both a "before" and "after," with different areas in each category in the two pictures.