Marches Against Sharia Law...

[KingsGambit]

I agree with Starlight that the New Testament does seem to teach that some sins are worse than others. Consider 1 John 5, which differentiates between sins that lead to death and sins that don't. And consider the incest guy in 1 Corinthians 5; Paul seemed to react much more strongly against that than he did against much other sins.

[KingsGambit]

On a practical level, I find it difficult to imagine that God, who judges us based on our deeds, wouldn't differentiate between a white lie and raping and murdering a child.

[Starlight]

I don't actually agree that that is the correct interpretation of Romans, discussion thread here from a couple of months ago.

Incidentally I think Paul's theology in Romans is the exact opposite of what you are trying to make it out to be Gerbil. I think he strongly believes that people will be judged by their deeds and thoughts and that not everyone will be equally unrighteous or righteous.

I think Paul is writing against those who think they can just become members of a 'saved club' (in his day Jews, today Christians) and condemn everyone else to hell. He asserts over and over again that the final judgement will be based on actions and will apply both to people who view themselves as being in the 'saved club' and to outsiders:


The NT consistently links the final judgement to moral actions. e.g. Matthew 25 where Jesus says the difference between who gets a positive final judgement and who doesn't will be with regard to how they've treated the poor. It's quite different to the modern theology of "pray the sinners' prayer and ask Jesus to fill the empty space in your heart and be your lord and savior and forgive your sins through his work on the cross and you'll be saved!"

But anyway, if believing in salvation by faith alone helps you get through the day, I won't press the matter.

[Charles]

The Bible is clear on these issues, and no one can come to the conclusion that killing homosexuals is justified by reading the New Testament. The Old Testament law applied specifically to the Israelites. That was just for the people it was given to.

So killing homosexuals is or at least was just in some cases?

[Starlight]

So killing homosexuals is or at least was just in some cases?

Apparently for the Israelites it was fine in God's opinion. Perhaps he approves of Saudi Arabia and ISIS doing it too? Who knows?

[Charles]

Apparently for the Israelites it was fine in God's opinion. Perhaps he approves of Saudi Arabia and ISIS doing it too? Who knows?

That is exactly why we need an answer. It appears as if the claim is that the killing of homosexuals is not unjust in and of itself. I'd like to hear Sparko's opinion as well.

[Meh Gerbil]

I agree with Starlight that the New Testament does seem to teach that some sins are worse than others. Consider 1 John 5, which differentiates between sins that lead to death and sins that don't. And consider the incest guy in 1 Corinthians 5; Paul seemed to react much more strongly against that than he did against much other sins.

Some sin has more dire and immediate consequences in the here and now - for example, a murder spree has greater implications than stealing change out of a parking meter.

Consider this: What is the sin that condemned all of Creation? Eve ate a piece of fruit she was told not to eat. That one act condemned billions to suffering and death - in Christian theology the corruption of all of creation rested on that one act. It wasn't a murder, it wasn't teh gay sex, it wasn't eating pork on Tuesay. You'd be hard pressed to get busted for stealing an apple these days.

[Meh Gerbil]

On a practical level, I find it difficult to imagine that God, who judges us based on our deeds, wouldn't differentiate between a white lie and raping and murdering a child.

For the child there is a world of difference, which is why that would be categorized as worse by humanity; however, both are defying God which cannot exist on any level.
Again, what single sin condemned all of mankind?
Was it a sin closer to harming a child or was eating a piece of stolen fruit closer to telling a white lie?

[Meh Gerbil]

Um, what if I object to being lumped in with sinners like you?

At least you'd be making sense.

[Meh Gerbil]

Opps, my bad.
I found a text that has refuted me:

"My dear brothers, if you are caught in a sin make yourself sure that it is one of the lesser sins such as white lies or watching porn on Netflix. For we will all have to stand before the judgement seat of Christ one day and if you must bear guilt be guilty only of stealing change, or driving too fast, or using light drugs so that the Lord will only look at you askance instead of being wrathful and all upset. For these things we know aren't serious: porn, fast food, stealing bread when you need it, and sex if you really love her." - Romans 44:10

[Sparko]

1. Thought experiments about putting people on islands come across as dodgy in general, cos y'know, internment camps have been a thing.

2. Why are Christians so obsessed with talking about gay people being on islands? (e.g. here. It seems as regular and as dumb a talking point as 'Adam and Steve' which has embarrassingly also made an appearance in this thread.)

3. You've messed up your post and put Hetero-Island twice in your final comparison.

4. What is it with you and ridiculously over the top stereotypes about gay people? Elsewhere you write "Use a gay executioner. Sell him on the leather." I hate to break it to you but the average gay person is not any more interested in leather than the average straight person. And if you met an average, randomly selected, gay person there is no way you would be able to distinguish them from an average randomly selected straight person, short of asking them 'are you gay?'. There are typically no 'tells' at all, and people who are gay are typically absolutely indistinguishable from people who are straight. They wouldn't be wearing makeup, sequin dresses, fishnet stockings, leather, or any other such absurdities. Your stereotyping is dumb.

Translation: WAAAAAAHHHH!

[Sparko]

A lot of Christians think that the NT teaches that homosexuals will go to hell ("will not inherit the kingdom of God"). If God thinks something's worthy of the cosmic death penalty, it hardly seems over the top for a Christian to think it's worthy of a merely-human death penalty!

No. because the Christian's "job" is to try to save others and share the gospel. Killing them kinda keeps them from accepting the gospel, eh?

[Meh Gerbil]

No. because the Christian's "job" is to try to save others and share the gospel. Killing them kinda keeps them from accepting the gospel, eh?

That's why we invented the rack.
Two birds, one stone.

[Sparko]

That's why we invented the rack.
Two birds, one stone.

What if they like the rack? all that leather and lycra.

[Meh Gerbil]

What if they like the rack? all that leather and lycra.

That's racist.