So Healthcare thing failed.

[Terraceth]

The plan is to make health care affordable for everyone. To that end Obamacare was a compromise with the republicans who care more about their stupid priciples than they do about peoples health.

How the heck could Obamacare be a "compromise" with Republicans when not a single Republican voted for it?

[Starlight]

I hate to say this but we may need to just bite the bullet and go to a single payer system.

Seer agrees with the Huffington Post ()? The world must be ending.

Incidentally, here are some interesting comments from people in response to the above article discussing their holiday experiences in countries with single-payer or equivalent: (profanities removed and typos corrected)

As someone who had a relatively simple surgery in which even the co-pay almost wiped out almost all of my early 20s savings, I've been time for single payer for a long time.

Had hospital visit in France for comparison. In the dead center of Paris, i didn't even wait, immediately with a nurse. Five minutes until I was with a doctor. An hour before all labs were done and all prescriptions provided. Total bill? ~$22 usd. Oh, and the service quality was higher even from the staff that didn't speak English.

Most recent ER visit in the US? 6 hours, no diagnosis, took six tries for each the ER and doctors practice to "process our insurance" despite the fact they scanned and typed up my card at the hospital before administering treatment while I was in severe pain. Total cost AFTER we threatened to sue them for fraud and they processed it: $450 in co-pay alone.

I was in Japan on vacation and went to the doctor without insurance. I had strep throat and a stomach virus. I paid 3,000 yen (~$27) for a visit to the doctor and 2,200 yen (~$20) for 3 prescriptions. The reason the doctor visit was so expensive was because it was my first time at that doctor's office so I had to pay an extra fee. If I was already a member of that clinic, it would have cost me like 600 yen (~$5). And this is without insurance. My visit to the doctor in Japan + medications without insurance was less than my copay for urgent care in America... Oh, and I was in and out in 15-20 minutes (10 mins filling out forms and 5-10 mins with the doctor.

A couple weeks before, my buddy went to the ER for strep throat in America and it cost him $800 after insurance.

I broke my finger before a vacation and had to have a custom splint molded and made at the hospital. During the vacation I lost the splint. Our Italian host assured us that getting a replacement would be simple. My husband went to the hospital, found the orthotics department, and bought a mass-produced splint of comparable quality and efficacy, $18. The custom splint I was required to get in the US? Almost $500. Cool private sector efficiency, bro.

Italy, too: Hotel visit from doctor and medicine for toddler: $50, no insurance...

In 2012 I became incredibly ill in Singapore the day before I was to fly back to New York. I tried to stick it out, but ultimately needed to see a doctor. (as the trip back would take 27 hours)

I went to an emergency clinic in the airport, 45 minutes before my flight boarded. I was in and out in under 15 minutes, saw a Doctor, and received 3 prescriptions that were filled instantly. At the end they presented a bill and asked if I could afford to pay it. It was 70 SGD, or about US$50.

In the states that would have been easily $200, with insurance, and taken hours.

[Starlight]

How the heck could Obamacare be a "compromise" with Republicans when not a single Republican voted for it?

Obama deliberately heavily involved Republicans in the process of its creation, and tried to make it as Republican-friendly as possible. Part of that was because he wanted to create a healthcare bill that would last, and which Republicans wouldn't simply repeal the second they could; and part of that was because Obama had quite an egotistical view of himself as a coalition-builder who would bring the parties together and end the partisan gridlock in Washington so he wanted to work with the Republicans and compromise with them even when he didn't need to, for the sake of doing so. Ultimately the Republicans were able to thwart Obama's entire agenda of trying to work with them simply by flatly refusing to work with him. A lot of progressives mock Obama for spending so much time and effort trying to compromise with Republicans on Obamacare only to eventually receive zero votes from them on it, when he could have gone the other way and passed a single payer system by bullying the right-wing Dems who were threatening to block such a system.

[Terraceth]

Yes, the Democrats (not so much Obama, he gets more credit/blame than deserved because his main role was just to sign the thing) could have just ignored the Republicans and passed whatever they wanted, they had the numbers. So it's downright goofy to claim that the health care bill came about as compromising with the Republicans when they didn't actually compromise with them. Any "compromise" the Democrats ultimately made was with themselves or the two Independents.

[Starlight]

So it's downright goofy to claim that the health care bill came about as compromising with the Republicans when they didn't actually compromise with them.

No, what's goofy is the way you're misunderstanding the political process. You are projecting the final vote backward in time - Obama when the law was being drafted and discussed and was in committee didn't know in advance that no Republicans would end up voting for it in the future. He thought some would, he expected some to do so, and he involved them throughout the process, trying to craft a law that Republicans would approve of, and compromising with them and their views throughout the process of drafting and redrafting the bill. The fact that, at the last minute, Republicans decided not to vote for it, doesn't mean they weren't involved in the process of its creation or that the way it was written wasn't a compromise with them. The final vote for the bill is only a tiny part of what was a months-long political process that involved all sorts of discussions and sub-committees and re-draftings, so it's simply a misunderstanding on your part to equate a final unexpected last-minute decision of Republicans not to vote for the bill with the idea that the creation process of the bill wasn't done as a compromise with them.

[One Bad Pig]

Democrats are pretty good at uniting and marching in lockstep to get things done, because they tend to be a collection of special interests, and couldn't get anything accomplished otherwise. Republicans are much better at finding principled hills to die on, even if it means failure; they'd rather fail than compromise.

[seer]

Democrats are pretty good at uniting and marching in lockstep to get things done, because they tend to be a collection of special interests, and couldn't get anything accomplished otherwise. Republicans are much better at finding principled hills to die on, even if it means failure; they'd rather fail than compromise.

We forget that Bill Clinton could not get his Health Security Act passed and he had both houses.

[shunyadragon]

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[One Bad Pig]

We forget that Bill Clinton could not get his Health Security Act passed and he had both houses.

That was pre-Dubya.

[Terraceth]

No, what's goofy is the way you're misunderstanding the political process. You are projecting the final vote backward in time - Obama when the law was being drafted and discussed and was in committee didn't know in advance that no Republicans would end up voting for it in the future. He thought some would, he expected some to do so, and he involved them throughout the process, trying to craft a law that Republicans would approve of, and compromising with them and their views throughout the process of drafting and redrafting the bill. The fact that, at the last minute, Republicans decided not to vote for it, doesn't mean they weren't involved in the process of its creation or that the way it was written wasn't a compromise with them.

"The last minute"? The vote was done in late December; the Republicans had vowed to filibuster long before that due to dislike of parts of the bill that the Democrats refused to compromise on. The months before that were the Democrats trying to get a unified front and the two Independents on board. So it was not the Republicans they had to do any compromise with.

The final vote for the bill is only a tiny part of what was a months-long political process that involved all sorts of discussions and sub-committees and re-draftings, so it's simply a misunderstanding on your part to equate a final unexpected last-minute decision of Republicans not to vote for the bill with the idea that the creation process of the bill wasn't done as a compromise with them.

It seems a misunderstanding on your part to claim that a "final unexpected last-minute" decision was the final vote when this had basically been decided on months beforehand.

So no. One really can't blame anything in the bill as a compromise with the Republicans, because the Democrats had the opportunity to change it to what they wanted in that intervening time period.

[shunyadragon]

So no. One really can't blame anything in the bill as a compromise with the Republicans, because the Democrats had the opportunity to change it to what they wanted in that intervening time period.

This is misleading, the Republicans have consistently stone walled any move to improve or change Obamacare since it was passed, and would only accept repeal, and replace with their plan. In the Trump Congress the Republicans controlled all the relevant committees, and the Democrats had no saw, because it remained unconditional repeal and replace with the Republican Plan.