Originally posted by guacamole
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Christian Evangelism isn't a Political Party
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Last edited by RumTumTugger; 03-20-2017, 04:40 PM.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostStarlight was upset when he heard about some folks had a whale hunt and called it immoral. This after he said he thought it would be ok to kill a 3 month old baby.
Asking for a friend.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostDo we expect people who are atheist to hold to Christian morals?
Christians regularly paint atheists as the worst sorts of people - with absolutely no foundation for any type of moral code - and yet the moment an atheist is honest enough to actually express a real opinion on something we get people running around with their hair on fire - for expressing the exact kind of view the stereotype holds that he would posses.
I think everyone needs to take a breather.
This is getting embarrassing.
Starlight, be sure to add "eating babies is ok" to your stance.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAs for your laundry list of ethical issues, I'm OK with some of them all of the time, I'm against others all of the time, and the rest depend on circumstances.
Starlight likes to pat his own back as though he's that much more noble than everyone else here, especially Christians, but most Christians are for or against the very same things he claims to be for or against. We may quibble about what it means to be for human rights to gay/trans people, just as he would quibble about what he means by being against war (unlike most pacifists I know, he is for it under certain circumstances). And I know plenty of "Evangelical Christians" who are long time vegetarians (though not all of them do it for animal welfare as much as they do it for health reasons). He himself has only just recently became a vegetarian, so it's a dumb thing to put on his uppity moral grandstanding list. And of course, he's for plenty of things that would make even other far left leaning types look at him like he's a monster.
Anyhow, yeah, while our Christian or Atheist worldviews might shape how we approach things like politics, I'm still with Craig in thinking that Evangelical Christianity is not a political party. And if it's a matter of new uses for old words, then just call me Christian. Course, sooner or later that word will likely be warped by society as well (if it hasn't been already).
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostThe really fat liars are the worst!
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhy?"Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostAnd going back to my OP, that's what's wrong with assuming Evangelical Christianity is a political party. As we've reminded Starlight several times now, I and a few others here would consider ourselves Evangelical, but are absolutely against torture, drone strikes, war, the death penalty, homelessness, shooting unarmed black people, and are for human rights for gay/trans people, healthcare for those that can't afford it, and providing food and education for the same. Most of the more conservative posters who consider themselves Evangelical would definitely be on board about the plight of the homeless, against the shooting of unarmed people regardless of their color, human rights for all, and providing food and education where there's a need. And as has been previously stated, even on those things where we might disagree, say on the death penalty, or war, or the use of torture, even the most conservative Evangelical does not desire these things if they can be helped.
Starlight likes to pat his own back as though he's that much more noble than everyone else here, especially Christians, but most Christians are for or against the very same things he claims to be for or against. We may quibble about what it means to be for human rights to gay/trans people, just as he would quibble about what he means by being against war (unlike most pacifists I know, he is for it under certain circumstances). And I know plenty of "Evangelical Christians" who are long time vegetarians (though not all of them do it for animal welfare as much as they do it for health reasons). He himself has only just recently became a vegetarian, so it's a dumb thing to put on his uppity moral grandstanding list. And of course, he's for plenty of things that would make even other far left leaning types look at him like he's a monster.
Anyhow, yeah, while our Christian or Atheist worldviews might shape how we approach things like politics, I'm still with Craig in thinking that Evangelical Christianity is not a political party. And if it's a matter of new uses for old words, then just call me Christian. Course, sooner or later that word will likely be warped by society as well (if it hasn't been already).
fwiw,
guacamole"Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
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You aren't more "consistently pro life" than I am, you oppose wars because you feel no loyalty to the people around you. A dead stranger is no different from a dead friend. Imagine if God treated us the same way.
This is my biggest issue with pacifism and its most fatal flaw: 99.99% of the time it adds up to just plain old treason. The pacifist's ways don't produce more peace (often, they produce less), they simply kneecap those dumb enough to allow pacifists among their ranks so that when conflict inevitably arises, they are the ones who die."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by guacamole View PostPeople in a coma also have no awareness of their own state, emotions, or motivations. Shoot, people in a deep sleep have no awareness of their own state, emotions, or motivations. Temporary suspension of awareness--as in the case of the comatose, the deeply asleep, and yes, infants--is unreasonable grounds for the revocation of human rights.
Your final sentence seems to be an outright falsehood: "Temporary suspension of awareness--as in the case... [for] infants". No, it is not the case for infants. They've never had awareness. It has not been "temporarily suspended" (unless you're endorsing some sort of pre-existence or reincarnation?)."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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It is tragic to see that so many are either so stupid or so willfully ignorant as to fail to understand that "Pro-Life" means "Against targeted killing of the most innocent and defenseless." It's a convenient shorthand, you frickin' morons!Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostIt is tragic to see that so many are either so stupid or so willfully ignorant as to fail to understand that "Pro-Life" means "Against targeted killing of the most innocent and defenseless.""I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Darth,
Generally, my comment to Adrift doesn't apply to you because, unless I am missing something, you are not an evangelical. I was noting that neither he nor I would probably be considered in the main stream of evangelical political thought, despite both of us presumably identifying as some sort of evangelical Christian. But I am interested in discussion, and you are intelligent and interesting to talk to.
Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostYou aren't more "consistently pro life" than I am, you oppose wars because you feel no loyalty to the people around you. A dead stranger is no different from a dead friend. Imagine if God treated us the same way.
You are wrong that I feel no loyalty to the people around me. I love the people around me and do not want to see them hurt. I also recognize that every person in the world, unless they are literally mentally or spiritually broken, feels the same way. I also know that while God loves me and mine, he loves me and mine no more than he loves anyone else in this world. So I try, as much as I am able, to see a person loved and pursued by God when I look at other people. I'm not always successful at it.
I struggle to fulfill Jesus' teaching in Luke 6:
I think Christ wants us to see that person, minted with the divine image, when we see other people--that's why he explains to us that if we are only righteous to those to who, there is no virtue. Indeed, we are children of the Most High if we love the unlovable because that is precisely what God did for us.
This is my biggest issue with pacifism and its most fatal flaw: 99.99% of the time it adds up to just plain old treason. The pacifist's ways don't produce more peace (often, they produce less), they simply kneecap those dumb enough to allow pacifists among their ranks so that when conflict inevitably arises, they are the ones who die.
fwiw,
guacamole"Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
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Originally posted by guacamole View PostI am absolutely sympathetic to what you have to say. That said, I don't believe you (or I, for that matter) swim in the mainstream of Evangelical thought.
Originally posted by guacamole View PostThere are too few evangelicals who are, imo, consistently pro-life, which is what my earlier comment to you was about--that one would be supposedly pro-life, but also pro-drone strike, pro-police impunity, etc. There are Christians who are absolutely okay with killing some infants in some circumstances so long as it serves some patriotic greater good. There are Christians who pay lip service to Christian ethics, but who believe nevertheless that the ends justify the means. So while I appreciate the outrage that many feel towards Starlight's odious ethic, I find it frustrating that the outrage stops at political borders, and that so many shrug when it comes to other human suffering, or even applaud.Last edited by Adrift; 03-20-2017, 10:17 PM.
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