Betsy DeVos Disaster

[Cow Poke]

I don't see why they couldn't find somebody separate from unions. There are plenty of teachers out there who want nothing to do with the NEA.

The teachers' unions OWN public education in the US. They have a strangle-hold on it. Kinda like the Democrats own Chicago.

[Jedidiah]

Education is one issue where I agree with the Conservatives that it ought to be handled on a state level, which is to say that the role of Secretary of Education should be significantly limited. Having said that, actual experience working in the school system would be an ideal prerequisite. DeVos simply is not qualified.

We desperately need an outsider in that position to move us back to actual local control of education.

[Jedidiah]

The U.S. had a head start in public education, its only natural that the rest of the world would catch up. It isn't a decline in our education as much as it is the rest of the world catching up. Thats not to say thats its perfect, or that it hasn't had its problems, and doesn't need fix'n, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Conservatives/Republicans just have a problem with government in general, and they don't like the idea of paying taxes when it doesn't benefit them personally. Unions aren't the problem, not valuing education enough to get more great teachers into the system is a problem.

No! Education in the USA is a joke today. Those getting a good education are doing it in spite of the system.

[rogue06]

No! Education in the USA is a joke today. Those getting a good education are doing it in spite of the system.

And the only solution ever ventured seems to be "throw more money at it." Since I was a student back in the 60s and 70s (back when you needed to know how to use a slide rule to do trigonometry) spending per student has at least tripled with nothing to show for it. My old High School, which had over 3000 students, had a principal and three assistant principals and now, with 4000 students, there were (as of 2015) 14 assistant principals.

[Cow Poke]

The U.S. had a head start in public education, its only natural that the rest of the world would catch up.

[KingsGambit]

the unions have a lock down on the public school systems

In a right to work state you can refuse to join. I was going to myself back when I was looking for teaching jobs.

[Tassman]

She's clearly unqualified (and I say that as someone who usually votes Republican and has very few issues with Trump's other nominees).

I agree, but whilst her passionate support of charter schools is misguided...most perform below the state average according to the New York Times...her advocacy for guns in schools in Wyoming, as a protection against bears is spot on.

I hope another Republican defects so Mike Pence can't tiebreaker her through.

[Cow Poke]

In a right to work state you can refuse to join. I was going to myself back when I was looking for teaching jobs.

I've had friends who refused to join their respective unions - it made work incredibly unpleasant for them, and all but guarantees there will be no "career path".

[Cow Poke]

And the only solution ever ventured seems to be "throw more money at it." Since I was a student back in the 60s and 70s (back when you needed to know how to use a slide rule to do trigonometry) spending per student has at least tripled with nothing to show for it. My old High School, which had over 3000 students, had a principal and three assistant principals and now, with 4000 students, there were (as of 2015) 14 assistant principals.

Where I most recently taught in the public schools system, we had an assistant principal who was pretty much perpetually intoxicated. He finally got caught driving while intoxicated (it is rumored this was a recurring event, but he always got a pass) and the school board demanded he be fired from his job. The "system", instead, created a new position for him called "curriculum consultant", where he received almost a 20% raise, and had virtually no duties or responsibilities. And they hired TWO assistant principals to replace him.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but instead of naming schools after 'important people in America', they're being named (or even renamed) for stinkin career educrats.

[guacamole]

Maybe Illinois has different laws, but the teacher who came to school in my district was fired. We're also not a right to work state but there are at least two people I know of who aren't in the union--one because he's a Republican state senator.

As far as the effectiveness of public education in America, there are some places that do phenomenal jobs, and some places that don't.

For example:
If Massachusets were a country, its students would rank 9th in the world.

if Massachusetts were allowed to report subject scores independently -- much the way that, say, Shanghai is allowed to do so -- the Bay State would rank 9th in the world in Math Proficiency, tied with Japan, and on the heels of 8th-ranked Switzerland. In reading, Massachusetts would rank fourth in the world, tied with Hong Kong, and not far behind third-ranked Finland.

Moreover, in reading, Vermont would be tied for fifth with Singapore, ahead of such perennial PISA stalwarts as New Zealand, Japan, Canada, Australia and Belgium.

According to a separate international test, Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) -- which tests 8th-graders, instead of PISA's 15-year-olds-- Massachusetts ranks second only to top-ranked Singapore in global measures of science competency.

And there are places that do abysmally:

Naturally, it's also relevant to look at how the worst-performing US states compared to their international peers. According to Free Enterprise, the bottom 10 performing US states (the list includes the District of Columbia) are, from best to worst: Nevada, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Hawaii, Alabama, West Virginia, New Mexico, Louisiana, the District of Columbia and Mississippi. At 14% proficiency in math, Mississippi is on par with Bulgaria, Trinidad and Tobago, and Uruguay. At 8% math proficiency, DC is on par with Kazakhstan, Mexico and Thailand.

fwiw,
guacamole

[Cow Poke]

As far as the effectiveness of public education in America, there are some places that do phenomenal jobs, and some places that don't.

As far as the effectiveness of the Department of Education... that's an entirely different matter.

[guacamole]

As far as the effectiveness of the Department of Education... that's an entirely different matter.

Even as an education professional for twenty years, I have a hard time explaining to people and understanding myself what the department of education does. It funds research. It advises policy makers on broad policy goals from that research. With the cooperation of the president and congress, it can offer incentives for change (Obama and Duncan's "Race to the Top" initiative.) Beyond that, it seems to be a ceremonial bully pulpit. It could go and I wouldn't care. The most meaningful thing to come out of the education department in the last 8 years was that we had to provide some gender neutral bathroom facilities.

[rogue06]

Even as an education professional for twenty years, I have a hard time explaining to people and understanding myself what the department of education does. It funds research. It advises policy makers on broad policy goals from that research. With the cooperation of the president and congress, it can offer incentives for change (Obama and Duncan's "Race to the Top" initiative.) Beyond that, it seems to be a ceremonial bully pulpit. It could go and I wouldn't care. The most meaningful thing to come out of the education department in the last 8 years was that we had to provide some gender neutral bathroom facilities.

For which they have a $69.4 billion in discretionary funding this year.

[JimL]

Apparently most conservatives here simply believe that all republican administration cabinet nominees should be confirmed simply because they are nominated.

[Cow Poke]

Chuck Schumer is against her - that's all you need to know.

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She'll get the job, with Pence probably breaking the tie.