Inaguration crowd size

[Zymologist]

Just a random thought:

Given that Obama is more charismatic than Trump (more likeable?), the fact that he was the first black president, that the country was arguably more divided in 2016 than at his inauguration, and given the greater amount of vociferous resistance to Trump, Obama having a bigger--even much bigger--crowd wouldn't at all surprise me.

I haven't paid close attention to the photos because I don't care that much. Just inserting a thought*.



*I have these, sometimes. Occasionally they're even good!

[One Bad Pig]

Just a random thought:

Given that Obama is more charismatic than Trump (more likeable?), the fact that he was the first black president, that the country was arguably more divided in 2016 than at his inauguration, and given the greater amount of vociferous resistance to Trump, Obama having a bigger--even much bigger--crowd wouldn't at all surprise me.

I haven't paid close attention to the photos because I don't care that much. Just inserting a thought*.



*I have these, sometimes. Occasionally they're even good!

You missed one factor: Washington, DC is something like 90% Democrat, and many suburbs are overwhelmingly Democrat as well. It's easier to get big crowds when your supporters don't have to travel as far.

[Zymologist]

You missed one factor: Washington, DC is something like 90% Democrat, and many suburbs are overwhelmingly Democrat as well. It's easier to get big crowds when your supporters don't have to travel as far.

Good point.

[Sparko]

Trump has advisers and people on his staff that should be able to figure this out and steer him straight. Anyone in the position of leading the nation should not take their own judgement of 'crowd size' as gospel, nor should they force their staff to modify the pictures and information to fit their view. Yes, a lie is appropriate when there is real information available and even when told what it is one persists in ones own view, ignores the truth, and demands one's staff only tell him and the rest of the country what he wants to hear.

As to the two images:

Sparko - its basic physics. Please don't just dig in. Go figure it out. Look at where the tents are, where the white space begins. where the crowd blocks are. Heck, if you'll just look at where the tents are in the gigapix photo you can see that there are literally hundreds of feet of white space compressed into that short white strip behind the crowd between them and the building. The tents tell a lot of the story there. There are not significant crowds beside the tents, and there is a huge amount of space that is compressed into that short strip.

Also look forward at the other gaps. See how they align with the monument photo, as I pointed out to MM. Look on the right side of the gigapix photo, which is the left side of the monument photo. From the gigapix phote perspective, after the first main gap there is another gap on the right mostly blocked by the out of focus pole - that is the second large gap on the right (working towards the observer, away from the capitol) in the monument photo. Notice most of the crowd it on the right (monument, left gigapix).

One element that contribtues to the confusion here is the out of focus pole in the gigapix photo overlaying the right side of the crowd. You need to look carefully to see that the gaps on that side seen in the monument photo are also there in the gigapix photo.

And again, at those great distances, large amounts of depth looks very, very short and small. You need to 'calibrate your eyes' so to speak, the the two back tents on the left in the gigapix photo as compared to the monument photo can help you do that.

Jim

I know how perspective works Jim

Again, I believe the Obama Crowd was larger. BUT I don't believe the empty space is nearly as large as the overhead view taken from an earlier time shows that the MSM was showing.

Do you think I am lying at this point?

[oxmixmudd]

I know how perspective works Jim

Something is missing sparko - you aren't putting two and two together here in terms of how large the gaps must be at that distance to even show up in the picture.

Again, I believe the Obama Crowd was larger. BUT I don't believe the empty space is nearly as large as the overhead view taken from an earlier time shows that the MSM was showing.

Why are you relying on belief? You can work it out mathematically.

Do you think I am lying at this point?

No - don't be silly. But I do think you are missing what seems obvious to me and I don't have a good explanation for that. Have you tried to carefully reconcile the two pictures (Monument/Gigapixel), done the actual math, enlarged them and looked closely at what is there. I mean, I can probably do that for you and make a case that will convince you if your mind is not completely made up. It would just take a some time and I'm a bit short on that. Might be good for the general audience anyway. Just not sure I would have the time to do it in such a way it would be easy to follow with lots of diagrams et al.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

I'll grant your whole list as accurate for the sake of argument. It is dishonest and stupid, but still nothing to get worked up like you have. It's certainly no worse than your average politician, and actually tame compared to most in recent memory. It's almost as if you have been living under a rock your whole life until Trump showed up.

I would turn that around. If you can't recognize the difference between Trump and those that came before - It's as if YOU were living under a rock your whole life until Trump showed up - and you believed it when someone said "This is normal".


Jim

[Sparko]

Something is missing sparko - you aren't putting two and two together here in terms of how large the gaps must be at that distance to even show up in the picture.



Why are you relying on belief? You can work it out mathematically.



No - don't be silly. But I do think you are missing what seems obvious to me and I don't have a good explanation for that. Have you tried to carefully reconcile the two pictures (Monument/Gigapixel), done the actual math, enlarged them and looked closely at what is there. I mean, I can probably do that for you and make a case that will convince you if your mind is not completely made up. It would just take a some time and I'm a bit short on that. Might be good for the general audience anyway. Just not sure I would have the time to do it in such a way it would be easy to follow with lots of diagrams et al.

Jim

So you don't think I am lying, but that I am wrong. Yet you think Trump is "lying"?

Why don't you give him the same benefit of the doubt that you are giving me?

[oxmixmudd]

So you don't think I am lying, but that I am wrong. Yet you think Trump is "lying"?

Why don't you give him the same benefit of the doubt that you are giving me?

Do you really have to ask that question? Do you really suppose that you have ever presented yourself as being on the same level as regards lying and untruthfulness as Trump has?


A question for you: Why aren't you interested in finding out if the Gigapix and Monument images are, in fact, images taken at roughly the same time, showing the same crowd?


Jim

[Sparko]

Do you really have to ask that question? Do you really suppose that you have ever presented yourself as being on the same level as regards lying and untruthfulness as Trump has?

I wanted to point out the prejudice you have regarding Trump. You have already judged Trump to be a liar, and everything just reinforces that bias. You can't accept that Trump could just be wrong. He must be lying.

A question for you: Why aren't you interested in finding out if the Gigapix and Monument images are, in fact, images taken at roughly the same time, showing the same crowd?


Jim

I already know the answer and it has been discussed previously in the thread. The photo was taken at 11:04 AM

time.jpg

He was sworn in at noon and so it was at least an hour later when the gigapixel photo was taken since Trump is speaking after the swearing in in the photo.

[Sparko]

OK here is the definitive video. A side by side comparison from CNN which appears to be synced to the same approximate time.

It does show that Obama's crowd was larger, but it also shows a much larger crowd than the photo (in my post above) typically used to show how small Trump's crowd was.

[Leonhard]

In my mind the crowd sizes were comparable. Any use of the crowds as a point either way for the presidents is ridiculous. They should criticised for what they did or failed to do, but as for how many people turned up on their election day? Gimme a break.

[Sparko]

In my mind the crowd sizes were comparable. Any use of the crowds as a point either way for the presidents is ridiculous. They should criticised for what they did or failed to do, but as for how many people turned up on their election day? Gimme a break.

Agree.

[Cerebrum123]

I would turn that around. If you can't recognize the difference between Trump and those that came before - It's as if YOU were living under a rock your whole life until Trump showed up - and you believed it when someone said "This is normal".


Jim

The "I know you are, but what am I?" response won't be doing much good outside the playground. Never thought I would have to point this out to you of all people.

For the previous two terms of the US presidency we had someone who was exactly what most Democrats are saying Trump is. When Obama threatened free speech by shutting out entire news organizations, sending the IRS after those who didn't bow to his will, and was being literally likened to the Second Coming of Christ there was nothing but the sound of crickets. Now that Trump is doing far, far less it is "OMG TREASON! IMPEACH!".

You guys seriously do more to promote Trump than any of his proponents.

[guacamole]

In my mind the crowd sizes were comparable. Any use of the crowds as a point either way for the presidents is ridiculous. They should criticised for what they did or failed to do, but as for how many people turned up on their election day? Gimme a break.

It should be a ridiculous point, but the level of commitment some people have in support of the president by denying the obvious is jaw dropping. I'm beginning to suspect that 90% of this is just some conservatives trolling people on the internet.

[Mountain Man]

Like I said, there is little I can say to sway you MM.

There's a lot you could say. It just needs to be grounded in fact rather than liberal spin.