The Biden/NATO/Putin/Zelensky conundrum

[rogue06]

Hardly.

If Zelensky was lying out of fear of Trump, he might still fear that Trump could be elected again.

And the other reasons given for why Zelensky might not admit to feeling pressured (avoiding the appearance of trying to influence US politics and not wanting to appear weak to the voters in Ukraine) also still apply.

[seanD]

I can think of a couple of reasons for talking tough. One is to try to deter Russia from invading, and the other is to avoid being blamed for taking too weak a stance in the event that Russia does invade.

They may not be particularly good reasons, but I can't remember the last time a president did NOT talk tough in such a situation, and was praised later for his restraint.

It's more than "talking tough." They're outright fearmongering about imminent invasion and gloom and doom, which, according to Zelensky (who told Biden to knock it off in a phone call), is hurting his country's economy (probably causing a run on their banks).

[Stoic]

It's more than "talking tough." They're outright fearmongering about imminent invasion and gloom and doom, which, according to Zelensky (who told Biden to knock it off in a phone call), is hurting his country's economy (probably causing a run on their banks).

It's kind of a difficult situation. If they make it too clear that Putin is likely to invade, it hurt Ukraine's economy. If they don't make it clear, and Putin invades, then Americans who are hurt financially will blame the administration for not giving them warning.

[seanD]

It's kind of a difficult situation. If they make it too clear that Putin is likely to invade, it hurt Ukraine's economy. If they don't make it clear, and Putin invades, then Americans who are hurt financially will blame the administration for not giving them warning.

That's utter nonsense. Americans who were invested in Ukrainian assets and didn't know anything about the situation in Ukraine deserve to get burned. No investor invested in offshore assets is that clueless.

[Stoic]

That's utter nonsense. Americans who were invested in Ukrainian assets and didn't know anything about the situation in Ukraine deserve to get burned. No investor invested in offshore assets is that clueless.

If investors were as clued in as you seem to think they are, then Ukraine's economy would have been destroyed long ago.

[seanD]

If investors were as clued in as you seem to think they are, then Ukraine's economy would have been destroyed long ago.

Yes, because regular Ukrainian folk hording their money and hurting their economy as a result of all the western fearmongering are as investment savvy as folks who engage in offshore investment enterprises.

[Stoic]

Yes, because regular Ukrainian folk hording their money and hurting their economy as a result of all the western fearmongering are as investment savvy as folks who engage in offshore investment enterprises.

If you have evidence that regular Ukrainian folk hoarding their money is hurting their economy anywhere near as much as the absence of international financing, please provide it.

That absence of international financing is either because investors are as savvy as you claim, in which case it's not the Biden administration's fault, or they really did get information that they needed from the Biden administration, and the Biden administration would have been faulted for not providing that information.

[seanD]

If you have evidence that regular Ukrainian folk hoarding their money is hurting their economy anywhere near as much as the absence of international financing, please provide it.

That absence of international financing is either because investors are as savvy as you claim, in which case it's not the Biden administration's fault, or they really did get information that they needed from the Biden administration, and the Biden administration would have been faulted for not providing that information.

As I said before, if Zelensky is referencing offshore investments, then they deserve to get burned for being ignorant about the situation, a situation that's been ongoing for quite a few months now. It's more likely the local economy, since it's hard to believe offshore investors are that ignorant and need fearmongering rhetoric from the west to know what to do.

[Ronson]

As I said before, if Zelensky is referencing offshore investments, then they deserve to get burned for being ignorant about the situation, a situation that's been ongoing for quite a few months now. It's more likely the local economy, since it's hard to believe offshore investors are that ignorant and need fearmongering rhetoric from the west to know what to do.

Zelensky is talking about foreign investment in Ukraine. But honestly, it sounds like he's spinning this whole thing in order to get some fast cash.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/28...-to-chill-out/

On Friday, Zelensky said the country had lost almost half a million dollars in investment since the Russian buildup began and would require an injection of $4 billion to $5 billion to stabilize the economy.

The country lost "almost half a million dollars in investment"? Seriously? My old single-family house in California is worth more than that by itself. I suspect the article has a typo and they meant a half billion.

At any rate, what Zelensky wants is for the west to start sending Ukraine billions of dollars and he's using this as an excuse.

[seanD]

Zelensky is talking about foreign investment in Ukraine. But honestly, it sounds like he's spinning this whole thing in order to get some fast cash.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/28...-to-chill-out/

On Friday, Zelensky said the country had lost almost half a million dollars in investment since the Russian buildup began and would require an injection of $4 billion to $5 billion to stabilize the economy.

The country lost "almost half a million dollars in investment"? Seriously? My old single-family house in California is worth more than that by itself. I suspect the article has a typo and they meant a half billion.

At any rate, what Zelensky wants is for the west to start sending Ukraine billions of dollars and he's using this as an excuse.

I'm sure Zelensky wants US to send him money because: 1) He's head of country that's quite high on the list of corrupt countries; and 2) US is a sucker for doling out printed money to every country that begs for it, so he's apparently thinking -- why not beg for some?

As far as foreign investors, then they deserve to get burned, and I don't think they need Biden's fear hyperbole to guide them into what decision to make. Blaming the Biden admin for not warning them, as stoic argued, is kind of a dumb excuse.

[Stoic]

As I said before, if Zelensky is referencing offshore investments, then they deserve to get burned for being ignorant about the situation, a situation that's been ongoing for quite a few months now. It's more likely the local economy, since it's hard to believe offshore investors are that ignorant and need fearmongering rhetoric from the west to know what to do.

As I said, if international investors are as smart as you think they are, then it's not Biden's fault if Ukraine's economy is suffering.

[seanD]

As I said, if international investors are as smart as you think they are, then it's not Biden's fault if Ukraine's economy is suffering.

That may be true, and it's equally dumb to think getting blamed by offshore investors is the reason for the Biden admin creating war hysteria. So there must be some other objective for the fear rhetoric.

[Stoic]

That may be true, and it's equally dumb to think getting blamed by offshore investors is the reason for the Biden admin creating war hysteria. So there must be some other objective for the fear rhetoric.

There may be other reasons.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...45#post1348345

[seanD]

There may be other reasons.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...45#post1348345

You went full circle with your idiocy. Congrats.

[rogue06]

It's kind of a difficult situation. If they make it too clear that Putin is likely to invade, it hurt Ukraine's economy. If they don't make it clear, and Putin invades, then Americans who are hurt financially will blame the administration for not giving them warning.

Too late. Old Joe's green lighting an invasion -- just so long as it is "minor" -- makes any latter remarks superfluous.