What do White Evangelicals owe liberal blacks?

[Psychic Missile]

Hey you brought the thing up, and it wasn't even a racist policy, since black congressional leaders pushed for it.

The result of a policy can be racist regardless of the intent of its creators or supporters.

[seer]

The result of a policy can be racist regardless of the intent of its creators or supporters.

It seems to me that intent would be paramount. No one was attempting to single out one race, but a particularly horrible drug. The policy was not racist, it just happened to effect one race more. If more white people did and sold crack and went to jail at a higher rate than blacks or browns would you still call that racist?

[Psychic Missile]

It seems to me that intent would be paramount. No one was attempting to single out one race, but a particularly horrible drug. The policy was not racist, it just happened to effect one race more. If more white people did and sold crack and went to jail at a higher rate than blacks or browns would you still call that racist?

Crack isn't any more horrible than cocaine and didn't warrant harsher sentencing outside of hysteria, which is the best sort of environment for people to make decisions that result in something they didn't intend. To answer your question, no. The issue is with the sentencing requirement. Incarceration rate is a separate thing.

[Sparko]

Crack isn't any more horrible than cocaine and didn't warrant harsher sentencing outside of hysteria, which is the best sort of environment for people to make decisions that result in something they didn't intend. To answer your question, no. The issue is with the sentencing requirement. Incarceration rate is a separate thing.

wait. You are saying the law is unfair because more black people are criminals in regard to that crime? Well then, tell them to stop being criminals.

[seer]

Crack isn't any more horrible than cocaine and didn't warrant harsher sentencing outside of hysteria, which is the best sort of environment for people to make decisions that result in something they didn't intend. To answer your question, no. The issue is with the sentencing requirement. Incarceration rate is a separate thing.

Yes, actually crack is worse why do you think the Black Caucus wanted something done? So again, if white people were arrested more and had the harsher sentencing would that be racist?

The American crack epidemic was a surge of crack cocaine use in major cities across the United States between 1984 and the early 1990s. This resulted in a number of social consequences, such as increasing crime and violence in American inner city neighborhoods, as well as a resulting backlash in the form of tough on crime policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_epidemic

[Psychic Missile]

wait. You are saying the law is unfair because more black people are criminals in regard to that crime? Well then, tell them to stop being criminals.

No, I am saying that the law is unfair because more black people used that form of the same drug.

[Psychic Missile]

Yes, actually crack is worse why do you think the Black Caucus wanted something done? So again, if white people were arrested more and had the harsher sentencing would that be racist?

How is crack worse? You're talking about separate crimes. The scenario you describe wouldn't be part of a systemically racist society because white people are still in control, but yes, if the situation were reversed that would be a racist law.

[seer]

How is crack worse? You're talking about separate crimes. The scenario you describe wouldn't be part of a systemically racist society because white people are still in control, but yes, if the situation were reversed that would be a racist law.

Did you read the link? Of course crack is worse, it clearly increased crime and violence in the inner city.

[Sparko]

No, I am saying that the law is unfair because more black people used that form of the same drug.

which makes them criminals.

[lilpixieofterror]

Anti-poverty programs have helped millions and millions of people in the US, as they have in other nations too.

They have done a great job keeping people locked into the same cycle of poverty and making sure they could never rise above it. Obviously, since the poverty rate hasn't changed that much since the whole 'war on poverty' thing was started back in the mid 60's, despite spending to the tune of 22 trillion dollars, in 50 years, obviously they are not working and a new approach is required. Unless of course, you think doubling down on the same failure, year after year, is a sound strategy.

For the most part such programs are very successful and very effective. The US however, has not spent as much on such programs as the rest of the 'socialist' Western world, and as a result has not achieved as much with them.

So 22 trillion dollars, in 50 years, isn't enough still? Hummm interesting, so tell me what the objective measurement is on 'enough'? Did the thought ever enter your head that it isn't the amount, but how and what it is spent on, that is the issue? If these programs were so great, people would get out of poverty. They haven't, despite spending trillions of dollars trying to do so. Does continuing down the same path of failure, year after year, expecting different results, make any sense to you?

[lilpixieofterror]

For decades / centuries the US has had systemic laws and policies which have directly or indirectly discriminated against black people and made life harder for them. As a result, unsurprisingly, today black people have worse outcomes than white people in most social measures. Sane and compassionate people say, "well, since our society has hurt them and held them back for so long, it's only fair and just to implement policies to help them out, and help them recover from the massively detrimental effects of past prejudice." And then there's people like you, who look at the 100-yard dash being run that currently has white people at the 50 yard line, and black people at 50 yards behind the starting line with their feet tied together, because that's how it's been rigged historically, and you offer wonderfully helpful comments like saying that giving black people any form of assistance is just "saying you don't think that they are capable of making it on their own".

Sorry dimbulb, but I never sold anybody into slavery, never owned slaves, and I never enforced or passed anything to do with Jim Crow. The fact remains that slavery ended 150 years ago and Jim Crow died over 40 years ago and to a different generation. The ones coming of age today never experienced any of that stuff. Why modern day white people should be held responsible for something that happened generations ago is beyond me. Plenty of black people have made it in life and done just as well as white people have. They are more than capable of doing so, but some need to stop living on actions that happened 2 or more generations ago.

[lilpixieofterror]

Crack was disproportionately used by black people and cocaine was disproportionately used by white people. The result was that black people are given a harsher sentence than white people for the same drug. Just because a policy was promoted by members of a group doesn't mean the result isn't more harmful for that group.

I wouldn't call myself racist, as I define that term as someone who fosters their racist tendencies. However, even people who don't foster their racism may contribute to a larger trend through unconscious actions.

Awww yes, despite the fact that congress was listening to what black leaders said and wanted passed, they are still racist. Yep, the mind of somebody focused on race and nothing else. Tell me, would have ignoring black leaders and what they wanted pushed also have been racist too?

[lilpixieofterror]

It was an example of racist government policy. I'm not in this thread to prove to you that systemic racism exists. I'm here to provide you an explanation of that view.

No it wasn't, it was an example of you screaming about racism, without understanding history first. Congress and state law makers was merely listening to what black leaders and other blacks said and wanted passed and did just what they wanted. Amazing how doing what black leaders and communities push for is now racist. Tell me PM, is there anything that a white person can do that that isn't racist or are all white people automatically racist?

[Psychic Missile]

Did you read the link? Of course crack is worse, it clearly increased crime and violence in the inner city.

If that additional crime is the fault of the person being charged, it would be a separate charge. If it's not their fault, then they are being sentenced for a crime they didn't commit. Either way, that's how the law works.

[Psychic Missile]

which makes them criminals.

Your inability to understand the idea that two people being charged differently for the same crime because of their race being injustice is criminal.