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The End of Trudeau?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    I find it interesting that one of the government-paid msm political correspondents stated this morning that Trudeau cannot say he has a mandate from the people with just a minority government. She said that the results of this election prove that Canadians did not want this to go forward, as Little Pierre has been saying the exact opposite. It was all for his own political gain.

    Here are results across the country for this election.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...-jagmeet-singh

    Here are the 2019 results.


    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli.../2019-results/
    As I noted his party actually lost a seat so that is hardly a mandate, but as TM notes, it's pretty much a knee jerk response from any politician to claim a mandate if they didn't lose.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      As I noted his party actually lost a seat so that is hardly a mandate, but as TM notes, it's pretty much a knee jerk response from any politician to claim a mandate if they didn't lose.
      Yeah. Sort of like the democrats won the WH, lost seats in the house, and barely managed to get a 50/50 split in the senate, when they expected to win all 3 cleanly. They now claim they have a mandate to pass all sorts of stuff.

      Comment


      • #63
        I just heard that this election cost the taxpayers $600 million.

        What a waste of time and MY money.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #64
          Looks like Trudeau is sticking around: Liberal-NDP deal paves way for Justin Trudeau to stay in power until 2025, at least.

          Announced today, the left-wing NDP party will support Trudeau's government, in exchange for Trudeau's government passing some of their left-wing priorities. Assuming both sides keep to the agreement, it seems likely Trudeau will remain Prime Minister of Canada until at least 2025.

          In this deal, the NDP party will vote for any must-pass bills (e.g. the budget), thus giving Trudeau enough votes (NDP + Liberals = a majority) to keep his government running. But the NDP will have no part in the running of the government itself. In exchange, Trudeau's government will pass the things it promised NDP it would. Any other bills Trudeau's government wants to pass will be up for a free-for-all debate and vote, with no surety they will have NDP support or the numbers required to pass.

          This type of deal is known as 'providing supply and confidence' in parliamentary systems as those are terms for the must-pass bills. The alternative type of deal, which this isn't, is a "coalition" deal where both parties govern together.
          Last edited by Starlight; 03-22-2022, 10:33 PM.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #65
            It's called forming a coalition, and it really stinks to high heaven.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
              It's called forming a coalition
              Not exactly. Lengthy Canadian piece explaining the difference between a coalition vs confidence and supply: No, the Liberals and NDP didn't form a coalition. Here's why.

              and it really stinks to high heaven.
              If you don't like Trudeau or the NDP, fine.

              But if you're implying there's something wrong with this deal, I don't see it. Negotiating a deal like this is totally normal in multi-party democracies and has been for decades. What's the alternative? Keep repeating the election until someone wins outright, even if it takes 17 election repeats and 3 years to do? Or if you're just against multi-party democracies, that seems weird, usually people agree that having more choice than just two parties is better.
              Last edited by Starlight; 03-22-2022, 10:50 PM.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Not exactly. Lengthy Canadian piece explaining the difference between a coalition vs confidence and supply: No, the Liberals and NDP didn't form a coalition. Here's why.

                If you don't like Trudeau or the NDP, fine.

                But if you're implying there's something wrong with this deal, I don't see it. Negotiating a deal like this is totally normal in multi-party democracies and has been for decades. What's the alternative? Keep repeating the election until someone wins outright, even if it takes 17 election repeats and 3 years to do? Or if you're just against multi-party democracies, that seems weird, usually people agree that having more choice than just two parties is better.
                I know what they’re calling it. You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. And you don’t have to educate me on what is happening in my country, thanks so much.

                They’ve done it for the same reason the NDP and the Bloc rubber stamped the Emergency Measures act…..because Trudeau threatened them with an election if they didn’t, and they all knew that people are angry and wouldn’t have re-elected them. And all this following protestations about the act from the leaders of both those parties. And Trudeau did call a snap election last September less than 2 years after the 2019 one. Both gave him a minority. Do you thinks he would care about the cost of another 15 if it allowed him to stay in power? Think again.

                It may be normal, at least in your opinion, but if the Conservatives tried the same thing when they were in power there would have been an uproar from the left that you would have heard in your own little island nation.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                  It may be normal, at least in your opinion, but if the Conservatives tried the same thing when they were in power there would have been an uproar from the left that you would have heard in your own little island nation.
                  Why do you think that?
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Looks like Trudeau is sticking around: Liberal-NDP deal paves way for Justin Trudeau to stay in power until 2025, at least.

                    Announced today, the left-wing NDP party will support Trudeau's government, in exchange for Trudeau's government passing some of their left-wing priorities. Assuming both sides keep to the agreement, it seems likely Trudeau will remain Prime Minister of Canada until at least 2025.

                    In this deal, the NDP party will vote for any must-pass bills (e.g. the budget), thus giving Trudeau enough votes (NDP + Liberals = a majority) to keep his government running. But the NDP will have no part in the running of the government itself. In exchange, Trudeau's government will pass the things it promised NDP it would. Any other bills Trudeau's government wants to pass will be up for a free-for-all debate and vote, with no surety they will have NDP support or the numbers required to pass.

                    This type of deal is known as 'providing supply and confidence' in parliamentary systems as those are terms for the must-pass bills. The alternative type of deal, which this isn't, is a "coalition" deal where both parties govern together.
                    I wonder how often deals where one side provides support, gets no power and has to rely on the promises of the senior partner have lasted. One would think that, given the nature of politics, it is a recipe for disaster lasting only as long as the junior partner is willing to bend over.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      I wonder how often deals where one side provides support, gets no power and has to rely on the promises of the senior partner have lasted. One would think that, given the nature of politics, it is a recipe for disaster lasting only as long as the junior partner is willing to bend over.
                      On the contrary they tend to work really well. The junior partner has the power to end the deal at any time and thus collapse the government if the senior partner isn't following through on its half of the agreement. It's also very transparent to the voters what each party is doing, so if either side behaves badly the voters can respond at the election that would be triggered if the agreement collapsed. So both parties are hugely incentivised to keep the deal and act in good faith.

                      By contrast, proper coalition governments, where both parties hold cabinet positions and negotiate laws with each other behind the scenes before they are introduced for a public vote, are a lot less transparent to the public. If one party is causing problems or vetoing things behind the scenes then the public can get angry that good things aren't getting done but not know which party to blame. Often junior coalition partners will not be very visible in the achievements of coalition governments and will lose votes in the next election as a result. For this reason small parties often prefer to avoid being in coalition, and instead provide confidence and supply in exchange for a public list of laws and policies. Then in the next election they can point to that list as things they achieved.

                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Canada and the US have this in common: stuck with a leader a significant portion of the country wants to be rid of.
                        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                          Canada and the US have this in common: stuck with a leader a significant portion of the country wants to be rid of.
                          We might be experiencing something new here -- where the majority of a president's supporters don't want him to run for reelection. I don't think that has ever happened before.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                            Canada and the US have this in common: stuck with a leader a significant portion of the country wants to be rid of.
                            Sounds not too dissimilar to other countries. Johnson is (rightly) disliked by a significant portion of the British electorate.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
                              Sounds not too dissimilar to other countries. Johnson is (rightly) disliked by a significant portion of the British electorate.
                              Same with Marcon in France, who's approval rating appears to be relatively steady at around 40%.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                                Sounds not too dissimilar to other countries. Johnson is (rightly) disliked by a significant portion of the British electorate.
                                Good point. It seems like a lot of the world doesn't trust their leadership right now. Of course, we probably can't get an honest assessment of what people in Russia or China really think of Putin or Xi.
                                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                                Comment

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