Originally posted by mossrose
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The End of Trudeau?
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAs I noted his party actually lost a seat so that is hardly a mandate, but as TM notes, it's pretty much a knee jerk response from any politician to claim a mandate if they didn't lose.
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Looks like Trudeau is sticking around: Liberal-NDP deal paves way for Justin Trudeau to stay in power until 2025, at least.
Announced today, the left-wing NDP party will support Trudeau's government, in exchange for Trudeau's government passing some of their left-wing priorities. Assuming both sides keep to the agreement, it seems likely Trudeau will remain Prime Minister of Canada until at least 2025.
In this deal, the NDP party will vote for any must-pass bills (e.g. the budget), thus giving Trudeau enough votes (NDP + Liberals = a majority) to keep his government running. But the NDP will have no part in the running of the government itself. In exchange, Trudeau's government will pass the things it promised NDP it would. Any other bills Trudeau's government wants to pass will be up for a free-for-all debate and vote, with no surety they will have NDP support or the numbers required to pass.
This type of deal is known as 'providing supply and confidence' in parliamentary systems as those are terms for the must-pass bills. The alternative type of deal, which this isn't, is a "coalition" deal where both parties govern together.Last edited by Starlight; 03-22-2022, 10:33 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostIt's called forming a coalition
and it really stinks to high heaven.
But if you're implying there's something wrong with this deal, I don't see it. Negotiating a deal like this is totally normal in multi-party democracies and has been for decades. What's the alternative? Keep repeating the election until someone wins outright, even if it takes 17 election repeats and 3 years to do? Or if you're just against multi-party democracies, that seems weird, usually people agree that having more choice than just two parties is better.Last edited by Starlight; 03-22-2022, 10:50 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostNot exactly. Lengthy Canadian piece explaining the difference between a coalition vs confidence and supply: No, the Liberals and NDP didn't form a coalition. Here's why.
If you don't like Trudeau or the NDP, fine.
But if you're implying there's something wrong with this deal, I don't see it. Negotiating a deal like this is totally normal in multi-party democracies and has been for decades. What's the alternative? Keep repeating the election until someone wins outright, even if it takes 17 election repeats and 3 years to do? Or if you're just against multi-party democracies, that seems weird, usually people agree that having more choice than just two parties is better.
They’ve done it for the same reason the NDP and the Bloc rubber stamped the Emergency Measures act…..because Trudeau threatened them with an election if they didn’t, and they all knew that people are angry and wouldn’t have re-elected them. And all this following protestations about the act from the leaders of both those parties. And Trudeau did call a snap election last September less than 2 years after the 2019 one. Both gave him a minority. Do you thinks he would care about the cost of another 15 if it allowed him to stay in power? Think again.
It may be normal, at least in your opinion, but if the Conservatives tried the same thing when they were in power there would have been an uproar from the left that you would have heard in your own little island nation.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostIt may be normal, at least in your opinion, but if the Conservatives tried the same thing when they were in power there would have been an uproar from the left that you would have heard in your own little island nation."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostLooks like Trudeau is sticking around: Liberal-NDP deal paves way for Justin Trudeau to stay in power until 2025, at least.
Announced today, the left-wing NDP party will support Trudeau's government, in exchange for Trudeau's government passing some of their left-wing priorities. Assuming both sides keep to the agreement, it seems likely Trudeau will remain Prime Minister of Canada until at least 2025.
In this deal, the NDP party will vote for any must-pass bills (e.g. the budget), thus giving Trudeau enough votes (NDP + Liberals = a majority) to keep his government running. But the NDP will have no part in the running of the government itself. In exchange, Trudeau's government will pass the things it promised NDP it would. Any other bills Trudeau's government wants to pass will be up for a free-for-all debate and vote, with no surety they will have NDP support or the numbers required to pass.
This type of deal is known as 'providing supply and confidence' in parliamentary systems as those are terms for the must-pass bills. The alternative type of deal, which this isn't, is a "coalition" deal where both parties govern together.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI wonder how often deals where one side provides support, gets no power and has to rely on the promises of the senior partner have lasted. One would think that, given the nature of politics, it is a recipe for disaster lasting only as long as the junior partner is willing to bend over.
By contrast, proper coalition governments, where both parties hold cabinet positions and negotiate laws with each other behind the scenes before they are introduced for a public vote, are a lot less transparent to the public. If one party is causing problems or vetoing things behind the scenes then the public can get angry that good things aren't getting done but not know which party to blame. Often junior coalition partners will not be very visible in the achievements of coalition governments and will lose votes in the next election as a result. For this reason small parties often prefer to avoid being in coalition, and instead provide confidence and supply in exchange for a public list of laws and policies. Then in the next election they can point to that list as things they achieved.
"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Canada and the US have this in common: stuck with a leader a significant portion of the country wants to be rid of."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostCanada and the US have this in common: stuck with a leader a significant portion of the country wants to be rid of.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostCanada and the US have this in common: stuck with a leader a significant portion of the country wants to be rid of.
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Originally posted by EvoUK View PostSounds not too dissimilar to other countries. Johnson is (rightly) disliked by a significant portion of the British electorate.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
Sounds not too dissimilar to other countries. Johnson is (rightly) disliked by a significant portion of the British electorate."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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