Delta variant and all future global variant surges (all are free post)

[Stoic]

It's a serious enough concern that the CDC is planning to change how the experimental vaccines are administered in order to reduce the risk.

Given that increasing the time between doses also provides a better immunological response, it seems like an easy decision.

Of course this is after countless people have already had their hearts damaged.

"Countless" meaning you have no idea how many, but you assume it is greater than zero.

If only they hadn't rushed the development and testing, this could have been avoided. And, yes, President Trump is partly to blame for this vaccine fiasco.

It's a strange world you live in where it would have been good to have many more people die of COVID in order to prevent a relatively few cases of mild myocarditis.

[Mountain Man]

"Countless" meaning you have no idea how many, but you assume it is greater than zero.

"Countless" meaning there are a significant number of cases we know about, and certainly more that we don't largely because doctors are refusing to make the connection between getting the vaccine and then having heart problems a short time afterwards. After all, the vaccine is "safe and effective", so it couldn't possibly be the cause of negative health events.

And again, it's a serious enough issue that CDC has taken notice.

It's a strange world you live in where it would have been good to have many more people die of COVID in order to prevent a relatively few cases of mild myocarditis.

"Relatively few". Yeah, okay.

[Stoic]

"Countless" meaning there are a significant number of cases we know about, and certainly more that we don't largely because doctors are refusing to make the connection between getting the vaccine and then having heart problems a short time afterwards. After all, the vaccine is "safe and effective", so it couldn't possibly be the cause of negative health events.

I'm confident that you have zero evidence for your claim that "doctors are refusing to make the connection between getting the vaccine and then having heart problems a short time afterwards." I doubt that it's possible to find a doctor who isn't aware of the heart-related side effects of the mRNA vaccines. (Okay, maybe some ophthalmologists.)

And again, it's a serious enough issue that CDC has taken notice.

You can bet that the CDC will take notice of ANY issue that might be serious enough to get a doctor involved.

"Relatively few". Yeah, okay.

Exactly.

[Gondwanaland]

How interesting......

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-...ntibodies.html

Study finds previous COVID-19 infection, but not vaccination, improves performance of antibodies

New research to be presented at this year's European Congress of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases (ECCMID 2022, Lisbon, 23-26 April) shows that, although over time the number of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies falls in both previously infected and vaccinated patients, the performance of antibodies improves only after previous infection (and not vaccination). This difference could explain why previously infected patients appear to be better protected against a new infection than those who have only been vaccinated


The study, by Dr. Carmit Cohen of the Sheba Medical Center, Ramat Gan, Israel, and colleagues, also found that, contrary to expectations, previously infected patients with obesity had a higher and more sustained immune response than overweight and normal weight range patients.

While protection against re-infection lasts for a long time in SARS-CoV-2 recovered patients, breakthrough infections are increasingly common six months after vaccination. In this study the authors analyzed the humoral (antibody-induced) immune response in COVID-19 recovered but unvaccinated individuals for up to a year and compared it with those who had received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine (but no previous infection) over eight months.

The study recruited previously infected-unvaccinated and double-vaccinated-never infected individuals from 25 March 2020 to 25 of November 2020 and closed in April 2021, just before the delta variant arrived in Israel. Those previously infected in this study had been infected by the original and alpha variants (and some cases of beta) of SARS-CoV-2, although it is not known which variant for each patient as the laboratory only gained the ability to sequence variants long after the study began.

The researchers followed-up of 130 patients diagnosed with SARS-COV-2 using PCR testing. These patients had not been vaccinated and remained unvaccinated during the study. None of these patients were reinfected across the study period. Data were collected on acute (during infection and immediately after) as well as long term (after 6 weeks) symptoms. They compared anti-spike protein IgG and neutralizing antibodies of these 130 recovered patients to 402 age and body mass index (BMI), matched individuals who were double-vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine but who had never had COVID-19. These double-vaccinated patients also remained uninfected across the study period; however, evidence had begun to emerge in Israel at this time (the second quarter of 2021) that double-vaccinated, never infected healthcare workers were experiencing 'breakthrough' infections at around six months after their second dose, whereas previously infected individuals that had not been vaccinated were not being reinfected. This study aimed to explore why.

The avidity index (simply expressed as the quality of antibody performance) was compared at one and six months for sub-cohorts composed of 16 people who had recovered from COVID-19 and 22 never-infected individuals who had been double vaccinated. For recovered patients, questionnaires concerning symptoms including long COVID were also collected.

The researchers found that the numbers of antibodies a month after vaccination were higher than those in the COVID-19 recovered patients. However, these numbers also declined more steeply in the vaccinated group. The avidity (antibody performance quality) index was higher in vaccinated individuals than in recovered patients initially. However, up to six months avidity did not significantly change in vaccinated individuals, whereas it gradually increased in recovered patients and potentially protected them from reinfection.

Interestingly, and against expectations, the level (titers) of antibodies in recovered patients with a body mass index of 30 or higher (in the obese range) was higher at all time points when compared with those with a BMI under 30 (normal weight to overweight range), suggesting people with obesity who had been previously infected were better protected against future infection than those who were overweight or normal weight and had been previously infected.

Of all recovered patients, 42 (36%) experienced long COVID symptoms including mental health (5%), neurological (9%), cardiovascular (5%) and respiratory (31%) manifestations.

The authors conclude: "While the number of antibodies decrease with time in both COVID-19 recovered (but never vaccinated) patients and vaccinated (but never infected) individuals, the quality of antibodies increases following infection but not after vaccination. People with obesity have a significantly higher and sustained antibody-induced immune response following infection. These results provide specific characteristics of the immune response that may explain the differential protection against COVID-19 in previously infected compared with only-vaccinated individuals."

Now that most people in Israel are vaccinated, it has become much more difficult to do any new study of never-vaccinated individuals.

This team of researchers is now following a cohort of people recovered from the delta variant (specifically focused on families) and also a separate cohort recovered from the omicron variant. In these newer studies, they are examining both the humoral and innate immune responses (different parts of the immune system).

Dr. Cohen adds: "With the omicron variant vaccinated individuals are better protected from severe disease, yet the fourth vaccine dose, now given to many people over 60 years old and those who are immunocompromised, does not appear to be protective against infection with the omicron variant. I think that the most interesting people to follow up now are those who have recovered from the earlier variants and have then been re-infected by, and recovered from, infection with the omicron variant. Hypothetically, these individuals should have very high antibody performance against most variants."

[seanD]

How interesting......

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-...ntibodies.html

I expect the covid cult to dismiss it with things like "The study is effectively bogus," or "That paper simply isn't what you think it is," or "These are fringe epidemiologists."

[Stoic]

I expect the covid cult to dismiss it with things like "The study is effectively bogus," or "That paper simply isn't what you think it is," or "These are fringe epidemiologists."

...or "Getting infected while unvaccinated is still a lot more dangerous than getting vaccinated."

[seanD]

...or "Getting infected while unvaccinated is still a lot more dangerous than getting vaccinated."

I suspect that sentiment is shifting (outside of big pharma shills) because a large percentage of the population has already been infected.

[Mountain Man]

I suspect that sentiment is shifting (outside of big pharma shills) because a large percentage of the population has already been infected.

And there's a lot of data showing that the vaccines are disproportionately risky, and really don't protect you from the China flu. Case in point, Israel's current China flu case count is higher than it was last summer, and a hospital director in Israel said that 80% of their severe and fatal cases are among people who have gotten at least three jabs.

"The vaccine has no significance regarding severe illness, which is why just twenty to twenty-five percent of our patients are unvaccinated."

[Stoic]

And there's a lot of data showing that the vaccines are disproportionately risky, and really don't protect you from the China flu. Case in point, Israel's current China flu case count is higher than it was last summer, and a hospital director in Israel said that 80% of their severe and fatal cases are among people who have gotten at least three jabs.

"The vaccine has no significance regarding severe illness, which is why just twenty to twenty-five percent of our patients are unvaccinated."

About that story.

<edited to add>

Another source.

[Mountain Man]

About that story.

<edited to add>

Another source.

The usual spin to try and dismiss facts and data that contradict the narrative.

[oxmixmudd]

The usual spin to try and dismiss facts and data that contradict the narrative.

The usual dismissal of the facts that counter the preferred misinformation. Of course, it is well known rational thought can't cure willful ignorance. But we can try ...

But let's see if you are brave enough to answer a few questions about this 'spin':

1) The article states this fact:

In a 100% vaccinated population, 100% of the covid cases will be vaccinated.

in a 100% unvaccinated population, 100% of the covid cases will be unvaccinated.

Now, explain how and why

a) this is a true statement even if the vaccine is 90% effective.
b) we could compare the number of diagnosed covid admissions and deaths in those two scenarios and determine directly exactly how effective the vaccine is.


2) The doctors statements were a mistranslation. What he actually said was: “the vaccine has no significance regarding severe illness“.

explain why this is not the same thing as saying "the vaccine is not effective against severe illness". Be careful how you respond, because my response to your response will include two scenarios that show exactly and clearly how they are NOT saying the same thing.

I'll stop there. No point in putting up more than you could possibly respond to in a single post.

[Mountain Man]

The usual dismissal of the facts that counter the preferred misinformation. Of course, it is well known rational thought can't cure willful ignorance. But we can try ...

But let's see if you are brave enough to answer a few questions about this 'spin':

1) The article states this fact:

In a 100% vaccinated population, 100% of the covid cases will be vaccinated.

in a 100% unvaccinated population, 100% of the covid cases will be unvaccinated.

Now, explain how and why

a) this is a true statement even if the vaccine is 90% effective.
b) we could compare the number of diagnosed covid admissions and deaths in those two scenarios and determine directly exactly how effective the vaccine is.


2) The doctors statements were a mistranslation. What he actually said was: “the vaccine has no significance regarding severe illness“.

explain why this is not the same thing as saying "the vaccine is not effective against severe illness". Be careful how you respond, because my response to your response will include two scenarios that show exactly and clearly how they are NOT saying the same thing.

I'll stop there. No point in putting up more than you could possibly respond to in a single post.

The other factor that you're not taking into account is that despite Israel's high vaccination rate, their China flu case count is at an all time high, and as the doctor says, vaccine status has made no difference in patient outcome. That's a fact, and all the spin in the world isn't going to change it.

[Starlight]

The other factor that you're not taking into account is that despite Israel's high vaccination rate, their China flu case count is at an all time high, and as the doctor says, vaccine status has made no difference in patient outcome. That's a fact, and all the spin in the world isn't going to change it.

I don't know why I bother to check these things any more, but here is a comparison of Israel's vaccination rate with the rest of the OECD currently, showing Israel has a fairly low vaccination rate compared to other countries.

And you've already been pinged on the false claim that "as the doctor says, vaccine status has made no difference in patient outcome" yet you willfully repeating it knowing it to be a mistranslation and misinterpretation of what that doctor said.

Not everything you write has to be false MM. Feel free to write something true in one of your posts some time to give us all a pleasant surprise. Maybe start with a goal of saying something true once a month, and then move up to the goal of once a week?
Israel vs OECD.JPG

[Gondwanaland]

I don't know why I bother to check these things any more, but here is a comparison of Israel's vaccination rate with the rest of the OECD currently, showing Israel has a fairly low vaccination rate compared to other countries.

And you've already been pinged on the false claim that "as the doctor says, vaccine status has made no difference in patient outcome" yet you willfully repeating it knowing it to be a mistranslation and misinterpretation of what that doctor said.

Not everything you write has to be false MM. Feel free to write something true in one of your posts some time to give us all a pleasant surprise. Maybe start with a goal of saying something true once a month, and then move up to the goal of once a week?
Israel vs OECD.JPG

Pretty sure Israel is on their 4th round or something.......

[Stoic]

Pretty sure Israel is on their 4th round or something.......

The number of rounds isn't necessarily related to the percentage of the population vaccinated.