Will Science Matter in Five Years?

[Backup]

What are the details?


According to USA Today, that meeting, which took place on Feb. 1, 2020, "played a pivotal role in shaping the early views of several key scientists whose published papers and public statements contributed to the shutting down of legitimate discussion about whether a laboratory in Wuhan, China, might have ignited the COVID-19 pandemic."

The call was convened after Kristian Andersen, an expert in infectious disease genomics at the prestigious Scripps Research Translational Institute in California, told Fauci he was concerned COVID-19 may have been artificially engineered.

"The unusual features of the virus make up a really small part of the genome (<0.1%) so one has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features (potentially) look engineered," Andersen wrote in an email prior to the teleconference, adding that he and other scientists "all find the genome inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory."

Andersen's email was one of more than 3,000 Fauci's work-related emails obtained by BuzzFeed News in early June.

Among those on the call included Fauci, Andersen, Wellcome Trust director Jeremy Farrar, National Institutes of Health Director Dr. Francis Collins, "plus several other international experts on emerging infectious diseases and virology," USA Today reported.


The Blaze

Note that the Blaze is quoting USA Today - and it's a sad state of affairs when USA Today is more reliable than the New York Times.

Collusion, anyone? Seriously, this reeks of corruption - and incompetence. I expected something along these lines would eventually be discovered - in a decade or so. In under two years? Well, I suppose there's some comfort in the notion that the Deep State is stupidly incompetent at times rather than merely corrupt and malicious.

Getting the genie back in the bottle is unlikely at the best of times - and this isn't the best of times.

USA Today is not bad. The Blaze is silly propaganda.

I think the right-wing is really hung up on the lab leak idea because is fuels anti-Asian hatred and supposedly makes Trump look good.

I don’t remember much debate over the virus’s origins during the past year. Why does it matter to anyone unless they are a doctor or chemist trying to develop a cure?

[CivilDiscourse]

I think the right-wing is really hung up on the lab leak idea because is fuels anti-Asian hatred and supposedly makes Trump look good.

I would say partisanship has more to do with it than racism. The original discussion was shut down because of assertions of racism, and accusations of it just being a blatant conspiracy theory. It now has come out that the situation is plausible and worth looking into.

So, if you were called a crazy conspiracy theorist, and basically evil, over something that is now coming out as not being a crazy conspiracy theory, you tend to rub it back in the people's faces who originally dismissed it.

More animosity these days are driven by ideological partisanship than racism. So, instead of reaching out and crying wolf on every thing you think is racist, it's probably more likely to ask if it's linked to blatant partisan bickering. More often than not these days, you'll find that answer to be yes.

Remember America from the other forums? He constantly referred to Trump as "Drumpf". He made fun of someone for a funny last name (or in this case ancestral last name). There's hardly a more racist/xenophobic thing to do than that. But, he wasn't racist or xenophobic, he was a die hard partisan. As such, his use of the xenophobic/racist attack wasn't because he was racist or xenophobic, but because he knew doing so was insulting specifically to one man, and "triggering" to the other side.

[rogue06]

In five years, liberals may be even more pro-science than they are now, though conservatives may be a lot more anti-science than they are now.

Will that "even more pro-science" include a continuing rejection of basic biology?

[rogue06]

I don’t think much will change. It is the same anti-intellectuals that have long been evolution and climate change deniers that are the COVID and vaccine deniers.

Aside from seeing anti-vaxxers along the entire political spectrum^[1], one of the largest blocks of those resisting the Chicom coronavirus vaccine is also one of the left's most loyal voting constituency.




1. so much so that we have experienced a resurgence in things like Whooping Cough (Pertussis) and measles. But "coincidentally" it is always in areas where a high percentage of parents have elected to not have their children vaccinated and for the most part those have been in blue areas.

[rogue06]

Let's define our terms first - science here refers to the information provided to the public by the industry/academia complex that we also call 'science'. It does NOT refer to the methodology that defines the most basic form of science. It's the science for public consumption that is being referred to here unless specified otherwise.

I am increasingly of the opinion that the science complex has shot itself in the foot - several times - and has taken a very serious hit to its public image. I strongly suspect this last debacle with the C19 media frenzy will result in a strong backlash - the beginnings of which we are already seeing - that is going to drag public trust in science down with its trust in the media. I expect the result will be seen first in policy as politicians who want to gain or remain in office stop following the 'narrative ' (a term that soooo needs to die) of 'following the science' anywhere - at all.

Lincoln's famous quote about not being able to fool all the people all the time comes to mind. This time, science can't just blame the media for its poor reporting. Fauci's emails are damning - and so are reports of scientists valuing politics over scientific truth/objectivity. What sane person is going to believe anything science supposedly tells them after this? And the truth is, given the hysterical levels of over reaction to other experts last year, this scandal is far from over.

If, as I strongly suspect it will, American's come to believe that they were duped about aspects of the panicdemic, the traditional media is unlikely to survive. It will almost certainly take science down with it.

There were scores of scientists sounding the alarm over various things we now know were deliberate deceptions disseminated by Fauci and the government. That's how science is supposed to work.

But they were silenced. And not by "science" or by scientists, but by the MSM and Big Tech (i.e., Social Media).

You can't fault science for this.

[seer]

There were scores of scientists sounding the alarm over various things we now know were deliberate deceptions disseminated by Fauci and the government. That's how science is supposed to work.

But they were silenced. And not by "science" or by scientists, but by the MSM and Big Tech (i.e., Social Media).

You can't fault science for this.

What about the scientists that went along with the cover up, like that article in The Lancet?

On February 19, 2020, The Lancet, among the most respected and influential medical journals in the world, published a statement that roundly rejected the lab-leak hypothesis, effectively casting it as a xenophobic cousin to climate change denialism and anti-vaxxism. Signed by 27 scientists, the statement expressed “solidarity with all scientists and health professionals in China” and asserted: “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin.”

The Lancet statement effectively ended the debate over COVID-19’s origins before it began. To Gilles Demaneuf, following along from the sidelines, it was as if it had been “nailed to the church doors,” establishing the natural origin theory as orthodoxy. “Everyone had to follow it. Everyone was intimidated. That set the tone.”

The statement struck Demaneuf as “totally nonscientific.” To him, it seemed to contain no evidence or information. And so he decided to begin his own inquiry in a “proper” way, with no idea of what he would find.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...id-19s-origins

[Gondwanaland]

USA Today is not bad. The Blaze is silly propaganda.

I think the right-wing is really hung up on the lab leak idea because is fuels anti-Asian hatred and supposedly makes Trump look good.

In reality, most current anti-Asian hatred in the US seems to be coming from the African-American community, which has had a long history in the past of hate crimes, etc., against Asians. (after all, there's a reason Rooftop Koreans were Koreans)

I don’t remember much debate over the virus’s origins during the past year. Why does it matter to anyone unless they are a doctor or chemist trying to develop a cure?

True, many scientists didn't do much debating, they settled for the easy political solution of 'oh it came from a bat in a market' (which, BTW, actually fueled plenty of anti-Asian hatred itself - I saw countless posts calling Chinese people barbaric while posting that infamous video of bat soup.... which actually wasn't even a video from China, it was from Malaysia IIRC, but pushed by the 'Wuhan wet market' origin folks as being from Wuhan....... indeed, it probably fueled more anti-Chinese hatred by blaming Chinese people in general and their eating habits, whilst the lab leak is pretty specifically about the Communist Chinese Party) instead of doing actual science and investigation, because if they did they might get linked to Trump by the OMB crowd.

But there was plenty of debating across the internet by some scientists (until social media banned htem for 'conspiracy theories') and many other people.

[oxmixmudd]

I guess you have a point in that people are designed to worship "something," and in a secular society, science is likely to fill that role.

In general, I don't favor theocracy, because there's always the possibility that I'll be considered a heretic. But if the only choices are Scientism and some form of theocracy, I'd just as soon have the latter.

No you wouldn't you might think you would, but theocracies never respect individual freedoms.

[oxmixmudd]

There were scores of scientists sounding the alarm over various things we now know were deliberate deceptions disseminated by Fauci and the government. That's how science is supposed to work.

But they were silenced. And not by "science" or by scientists, but by the MSM and Big Tech (i.e., Social Media).

You can't fault science for this.

When you write things like this, you make yourself equal or worse than those you are criticizing. This sort of rhetoric is based on exaggeration and a political vendetta against a man because he challenged the policies of an idolized leader.

[rogue06]

When you write things like this, you make yourself equal or worse than those you are criticizing. This sort of rhetoric is based on exaggeration and a political vendetta against a man because he challenged the policies of an idolized leader.

We were told masks wouldn't work. Then we were told they would and to even double or triple mask. Then we found out Fauci thought masking was a joke all along.

We were told this pandemic was the result of eating bats. Anyone asking questions was branded a racist and censored by the MSM and Social Media. Then we found out that it most likely came from a lab.

What again were you saying?

[Backup]

That has nothing to do with the topic at present. Although I admit the 'let's demonize everyone who might disagree with us' thing does increase the likelihood that the public will stop trusting science.

I directly answered the question.

I don’t think much will change because the people that think the CDC and WHO were lying about the pandemic are the same people who think the EPA lies about climate change and all biologist lie about evolution. They’ve never trusted science.

[rogue06]

In reality, most current anti-Asian hatred in the US seems to be coming from the African-American community, which has had a long history in the past of hate crimes, etc., against Asians. (after all, there's a reason Rooftop Koreans were Koreans)

That ^^^

Racism and anti-Semitism are rampant among the left, and I'm not talking about the soft sort of racism that old Joe regularly spews, but the angry hatred kind.

[rogue06]

What about the scientists that went along with the cover up, like that article in The Lancet?

Naturally you will find scientists, just like other people, on all sides of an issue. But the way scientists end up solving this is through examining the evidence -- all of it, and not just the data that supports what you want -- presenting their findings and then let others dissect those findings to see if they hold up.

What is not done is having all discussion shut down because of screams of racism from those who are hiding things and don't want any examination, and their obedient lapdogs in the MSM and Big Tech.

That is what we should be looking at and trying to find a way to prevent it in the future.

[Stoic]

Will that "even more pro-science" include a continuing rejection of basic biology?

Continuing?

[rogue06]

Continuing?

Yes. Continuing.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/tok...L6O7OSAXT3YJU/