"It’s dehumanizing"

[Gondwanaland]

No one is denying that physical and mental development continue after delivery.

Then you have no point. That or you cannot see your own logical inconsistencies and THINK you have a point when you don't.

No that is your logic not mine.

No, that is the logical extension of your statement that you used to defend killing an unborn child.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Then you have no point. That or you cannot see your own logical inconsistencies and THINK you have a point when you don't.

Those two aspects continue if nothing else comes into effect - accident or illness. However, because children usually grow up into mature adults it does not follow that every single embryo must be saved in order for that possibility to exist.

No, that is the logical extension of your statement that you used to defend killing an unborn child.

Children die all the time of preventable diseases, starvation and war.

The quality of life for this unborn child also has to be considered. However, as noted earlier that is of little consequence to the pro-birth lobby. As long as they can save an embryo from being aborted, what happens to the child in its ensuing life is of little interest.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

This is definitely a problem with no easy answers and I'm certainly not pretending to have them.

Well at least you have a modicum of honesty.

But one thing should be obvious. You don't try to fix it by turning what is inarguably the most innocent of humans into a victim -- a victim that must pay the ultimate price. Their life.

You fix it by having freely available contraception, good sex-ed and the fall back of an accessible and legal medically safe abortion as a last resort.

Is anyone here really naive enough to think that banning abortion will stop women seeking one out?

Or are some here content to see women go to jail for attempting to have an abortion?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...suicide-foetus
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-10024531.html

Then there are the accidents. In the last few years news items have highlighted incidents where women have miscarried and been accused of attempting an abortion. Are some here content with that?

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...tempted-murder

[rogue06]

Who did you expect was going to answer? How many women do you think frequent this particular sub-forum? Just by statistics alone, why did you think anything else was going to happen?

Or, you really didn't think that comment through before writing it, did you?

It was nothing but a ham-fisted attempt at marginalization.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

That males can not become pregnant is a fact. Your implication that this disqualifies them from being able to voice an opinion about abortion is a non sequitur.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, you are not entitled to force women to comply with your opinion merely because it is your opinion..

[rogue06]

Well at least you have a modicum of honesty.



You fix it by having freely available contraception, good sex-ed and the fall back of an accessible and legal medically safe abortion as a last resort.

Is anyone here really naive enough to think that banning abortion will stop women seeking one out?

Or are some here content to see women go to jail for attempting to have an abortion?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...suicide-foetus
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-10024531.html

Then there are the accidents. In the last few years news items have highlighted incidents where women have miscarried and been accused of attempting an abortion. Are some here content with that?

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...tempted-murder

I'm all for making contraceptives available and for good sex-education, but statistics continue to show that many women use abortion as a form of birth control. I've noted before that while in college I knew a "youth minister" who had already had several abortions because she didn't believe in regular birth control. So as long as it is "on demand" for any reason whatsoever you will have a certain percentage of women who rely on it.

Will we ever eliminate abortion entirely? No. Just like we'll never eliminate rape, robbery or murder, but I seriously doubt you'd propose making them legal because of that.

[CivilDiscourse]

I'm all for making contraceptives available and for good sex-education, but statistics continue to show that many women use abortion as a form of birth control. I've noted before that while in college I knew a "youth minister" who had already had several abortions because she didn't believe in regular birth control. So as long as it is "on demand" for any reason whatsoever you will have a certain percentage of women who rely on it.

Will we ever eliminate abortion entirely? No. Just like we'll never eliminate rape, robbery or murder, but I seriously doubt you'd propose making them legal because of that.

When I was in the Navy, we had a young sailor get two women in the command pregnant within a couple of weeks of each other. (Of course, at the time I was a young sailor too).

I found this out after coming back from deployment.

I asked one of my buddies, "Dear god, why didn't he use protection?"
"He's Irish Catholic, they don't believe in contraception"
"They don't believe in pre-marital sex either!"

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

An infant is not a human adult either

I never wrote that it was. Read for comprehension. However, once a child has been born it, like its mother, has certain legal rights.

Even you were once a single celled organism, Hypatia. Even you.

And your point?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

When I was in the Navy, we had a young sailor get two women in the command pregnant within a couple of weeks of each other. (Of course, at the time I was a young sailor too).

I found this out after coming back from deployment.

I asked one of my buddies, "Dear god, why didn't he use protection?"
"He's Irish Catholic, they don't believe in contraception"
"They don't believe in pre-marital sex either!"

I think you may find that there was, at least in some rural societies, a concept of "try before you buy", but of course once tried a purchase had to follow.

Being a pregnant bride did not always carry a stigma among some rural communities. It merely demonstrated fecundity and then doing the right thing.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I'm all for making contraceptives available and for good sex-education, but statistics continue to show that many women use abortion as a form of birth control.

What statistics?

I've noted before that while in college I knew a "youth minister" who had already had several abortions because she didn't believe in regular birth control.

That is arguing by a selected instance.

So as long as it is "on demand" for any reason whatsoever you will have a certain percentage of women who rely on it.

That reads as mere opinion.

Will we ever eliminate abortion entirely? No. Just like we'll never eliminate rape, robbery or murder, but I seriously doubt you'd propose making them legal because of that.

Ah the old canard is trotted out once again.

Have you ever seen a botched abortion? I haven't but a very dear [and now dead] friend did several times during her years as a very young nurse and that included her laying out the bodies.

It stayed with her for life and made her a passionate advocate of legal and safe abortion.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

It was nothing but a ham-fisted attempt at marginalization.

No it was a remark premised on amusement, namely that so many men have so much to write about what is always going to be a woman's problem.

I wonder how many of you regularly write about the issues surrounding menstruation or the menopause, or labour and perineal tears, or the early days of breast-feeding.

I admit I've rarely seen any threads or comments by men about those issues.

[CivilDiscourse]

No it was a remark premised on amusement, namely that so many men have so much to write about what is always going to be a woman's problem.

I wonder how many of you regularly write about the issues surrounding menstruation or the menopause, or labour and perineal tears, or the early days of breast-feeding.

I admit I've rarely seen any threads or comments by men about those issues.

Honestly, it's just dumb.

It's like throwing a rock into water, and then commenting that it's interesing the rock got wet.

BY the way, you didn't answer:

Who did you expect was going to answer? How many women do you think frequent this particular sub-forum? Just by statistics alone, why did you think anything else was going to happen?

Or, you really didn't think that comment through before writing it, did you?

[rogue06]

First, she's wrong about a total ban at six weeks. There is an exception clause for medical reasons. Given how that has been expanded to include mental health as well, this has meant that a woman can get an abortion if she says she's feeling blue this morning. Feeling depressed is considered a valid medical reason. That is a sizable loophole that will continue to be exploited. Moreover, morning after birth control medications will likely become more popular.

Second, someone having a heartbeat (or brainwaves) has always been the measure of life. She is whining that she cannot blithely snuff out another human life because it is in her way. Essentially, she is demanding that she be free to behave however she wants, completely free of consequence and responsibility.

Third, nobody is forcing anyone to get pregnant. Nobody has stripped anyone's future away from anyone in spite of the hyperbolic overwrought language. The Handmaiden's Tale is just poorly written fiction.

Fourth, guts? Guts? Saying something that you knew would cause the left to swoon and make you their newest celebutante? How exactly does that take guts? This is like the idiotic "speak truth to power" which nowadays means nothing more than saying something that the cheering crowd agrees with. It only takes guts if by saying it she faced potential serious repercussions. Instead, she'll be whisked from interview to interview where folks will giddily tell her how brave she was and likely get rewarded with a book deal

As predicted.

Yesterday The View shrews were repeatedly lauded for being oh so "brave" and of course "speaking truth to power." The entire segment went on like that with at one point Joy Behar (one of the angriest, bitterest and least funny supposed "comedians" around) getting so light-headed that she started blathering about how pro-life people need to vote Democrat. Seriously.

In any case... These are examples of what actual speaking truth to power is...

original.jpg
That's MLK and others in Selma where they were beaten and thrown in jail with King
ultimately being assassinated for "speaking truth to power"





tiananmen-square-front.jpg
After this photo this man was never seen or heard from again. The Chicoms "disappeared" him
for "speaking truth to power"

[rogue06]

No it was a remark premised on amusement, namely that so many men have so much to write about what is always going to be a woman's problem.

I wonder how many of you regularly write about the issues surrounding menstruation or the menopause, or labour and perineal tears, or the early days of breast-feeding.

I admit I've rarely seen any threads or comments by men about those issues.

Face it, you were trying to squelch disagreement by sneering that men shouldn't be discussing this since they can't get pregnant (you probably should talk to your woke fellow travelers about that and see what happens ), but as I noted, hypocrite that you are, you had absolutely no problem with, and likely applauded, a group of men expressing an opinion on abortion -- just as long it was one you agreed with.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Who did you expect was going to answer? How many women do you think frequent this particular sub-forum? Just by statistics alone, why did you think anything else was going to happen?

Yes internet boards do tend to be a "boy thing" don't they?

I am now eagerly waiting for all those men who have posted their views about the wrongs abortion to give their views on breastfeeding, dysmenorrhoea, the menopause, and the post-natal problems caused by episiotomies.