"It’s dehumanizing"

[NorrinRadd]

In other words, don't think of each category as a slice on a pie chart. Think of each category as just how many people said X, even if they also said Y.

(Or, in other words, Imagine giving people 10 foods and asking them which of the 10 they liked. They might choose 1, or might choose all 10.)

Ok, so the chart should have omitted the bottom row, which gave the impression the 100% was the total of all the rows.

[CivilDiscourse]

Ok, so the chart should have omitted the bottom row, which gave the impression the 100% was the total of all the rows.

I've passed it on to spur discussion

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

That's not for you or me to decide. It should be for the rape victim to decide.

I quite agree but no woman who has been raped should be denied the choice.

[Gondwanaland]

I quite agree but no woman who has been raped should be denied the choice.

The choice to kill an innocent human being?

Now if you said the choice to shoot her rapist, that's a different story.

[eider]

I quite agree but no woman who has been raped should be denied the choice.

You agree 'but'.....
Where I live all women DO have the choice. Absolutely.
Although it does seem unnecessary and unreasonable to wait up to 24 weeks before making such decisions, unless severe disability or risk is discovered with the pregnancy.

What I cannot understand is the group of folks who insist on 100% pro-life but who become angry when it is suggested that they pay for all child-care up to adulthood. That isn't pro-life, it's pro-domination.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You agree 'but'.....
Where I live all women DO have the choice. Absolutely.

Yet that choice is not so easily available in some countries. Look at the policy Poland is pursuing. In Northern Ireland while abortion is now technically legal, obtaining one is still very difficult. In the US some states [like Texas] are outlawing or making it very difficult for women to obtain a legal abortion.

Although it does seem unnecessary and unreasonable to wait up to 24 weeks before making such decisions, unless severe disability or risk is discovered with the pregnancy.

That I suspect is not always from choice. If the abortion clinic is hundreds of kilometres away and the woman also has to find the cost for paying for the abortion, the time it takes her to get those funds together permits the pregnancy to proceed so that when she does finally get to the clinic her pregnancy is further advanced than she might have wished.

That is not necessarily her deliberate decision that is simply circumstances.

Of course with damaged foetuses there should be the right to abort up to nine months. I seem to recall you have lived in Northern Ireland. If I am correct [and if you have not seen it] look on the BBC iPlayer for a two part drama. It was broadcast in May and according to that site is available for a year. I was told how good it was by friends in England who watched. I also read a review here:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...rthern-ireland .

It is called Three Families and deals with three recent cases in Northern Ireland prior to the recent decriminalisation of abortion. The three women's experiences were absolutely horrendous. One had to go through the entire pregnancy and give birth to a damaged child that she had been told would die within minutes because its lungs were deformed. Another had to go through an induced labour to remove a damaged foetus that had died several days earlier. The third case involved a mother who obtained abortifacients on the net for her fifteen year old daughter who had become pregnant by a school boyfriend and who, on telling him, had been subjected to physical abuse. The mother was then put on trial for illegally obtaining a "poison or other noxious thing intended to procure a miscarriage or abortion" under a law of 1861..

I cannot understand is the group of folks who insist on 100% pro-life but who become angry when it is suggested that they pay for all child-care up to adulthood. That isn't pro-life, it's pro-domination.

That to my mind is the entire hypocrisy.

The child can be go on to live in poverty, or die of hunger, or preventable diseases, [because of course these fanatics want to stop abortion across the entire world] end up being trafficked, living in dysfunctional environments [and all the other horrors you can imagine] but for the pro-birthers all that is irrelevant.

A baby has been "saved" from the abortionist.

[oxmixmudd]

...

That to my mind is the entire hypocrisy.

The child can be go on to live in poverty, or die of hunger, or preventable diseases, [because of course these fanatics want to stop abortion across the entire world] end up being trafficked, living in dysfunctional environments [and all the other horrors you can imagine] but for the pro-birthers all that is irrelevant.

A baby has been "saved" from the abortionist.

I agree. There is something deeply wrong with demanding the mother keep the baby yet fighting tooth and nail against any government programs that would help that same mother care for this baby she was forced to bring into the world, or that will provide some sort of mechanism to prevent this baby from growing up in an environment not much different than what we might imagine Hell to be.

[eider]

I seem to recall you have lived in Northern Ireland.

No.
I visited N.I. about once or twice a year to deliver training to commercial investigators.
Which country do you live in?

If I am correct [and if you have not seen it] look on the BBC iPlayer for a two part drama. It was broadcast in May and according to that site is available for a year. I was told how good it was by friends in England who watched.

The definitive story and film about unmarried pregnant women in Ireland (happening in my lifetime) is 'PHILOMENA' acted by Judy Dench. Her son became an advisor to Ronald Reagan. He died before his Mum could discover who/where he was. True story.
If you want to get a full injection of truth shock/horror just buy the DVD for your region.

[eider]

I agree. There is something deeply wrong with demanding the mother keep the baby yet fighting tooth and nail against any government programs that would help that same mother care for this baby she was forced to bring into the world, or that will provide some sort of mechanism to prevent this baby from growing up in an environment not much different than what we might imagine Hell to be.

Yep.
The 'Save the Children' foundation claims that about 2 million Brit kids are hungry and over 10 million US kids are hungry. I offer IT review links below ..........
In India the daily death rate of starving infants is just beyond easy comprehension.

https://www.savethechildren.org/us/c...ger-in-america

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/u...-went-19424026

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

No.
I visited N.I. about once or twice a year to deliver training to commercial investigators.

My apologies.

The definitive story and film about unmarried pregnant women in Ireland (happening in my lifetime) is 'PHILOMENA' acted by Judy Dench. Her son became an advisor to Ronald Reagan. He died before his Mum could discover who/where he was. True story.
If you want to get a full injection of truth shock/horror just buy the DVD for your region.

Oh I have seen that. I caught it on Netflix. Although that was a tragedy that took place in Eire. The play I recommended is set in Northern Ireland in the last 12 years or so.

[Sparko]

Oh please spare me the sanctimonious cant. Children who are wanted and loved die everyday from disease [many of which are preventable] famine, and war.

People die of war and disease, therefore murder should be legal! Great logic there Hypatia.

Couvade?

No dumbass. I merely identify as pregnant in order to participate in discussions about abortion.

Ah the worst crime of all!

Not a crime, a disease.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

People die of war and disease, therefore murder should be legal! Great logic there Hypatia.

I do not read of Christians here expressing indignation about the famines or wars around the world. In fact I cannot recall reading any threads from Christians about such horrors.

But someone only has mention abortion and... whoosh out all you come!

No dumbass.

Unnecessary pejorative duly noted which makes me think you have not come across the term before!

Not a crime, a disease.

No more so than religion. Or unchecked capitalism.

[Sparko]

I do not read of Christians here expressing indignation about the famines or wars around the world. In fact I cannot recall reading any threads from Christians about such horrors.

But someone only has mention abortion and... whoosh out all you come!

Non-sequitur.

Unnecessary pejorative duly noted which makes me think you have not come across the term before!

Oh wow. You think you can use some obscure word and then claim some kind of victory? You really do suffer from an inferiority complex don't you? It basically refers to "sympathetic pregnancy," but no, using that would be too normal for you, huh? And as I said, I was merely using liberalism against itself when I claimed to "identify as pregnant" -- So do you sit there with a tab open to a thesaurus just to find obscure words to show how 'intelligent' you are?

"ooh lookie! I used a word that nobody knows! I be really smart! I win!"

No more so than religion. Or unchecked capitalism.

Much more so.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Non-sequitur.

Au contraire very relevant.

Oh wow. You think you can use some obscure word and then claim some kind of victory?

You appear to be carrying a metaphorical entire log on your shoulder, not the usual "chip".

[CivilDiscourse]

Oh wow. You think you can use some obscure word and then claim some kind of victory? You really do suffer from an inferiority complex don't you? It basically refers to "sympathetic pregnancy," but no, using that would be too normal for you, huh? And as I said, I was merely using liberalism against itself when I claimed to "identify as pregnant" -- So do you sit there with a tab open to a thesaurus just to find obscure words to show how 'intelligent' you are?

"ooh lookie! I used a word that nobody knows! I be really smart! I win!"

It's the "Smarter-than-thou" game. Take this as a sign that you are "winning" as I often find she often starts throwing out these words when she starts being shown wrong. Its like a way of cushioning her ego. You know essentially going "Sure, I lost the point, but I'm still smarter than them, watch them struggle with this obscure word... HA! they didn't get it, I am smarter than them...that proves it...."