Sexism, racism, and misogyny: Beth Moore departs from the Southern Baptists

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Um.... you're really showing your ignorance here.

Oh good grief! I was being humorous.

It seems that on this occasion you missed my joke.

Now about those sexual abuse allegations and the alleged "soft-pedaling"... Any comment?

[oxmixmudd]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/10/us/beth-moore-southern-baptists.html

Now, one of the most prominent white evangelical women in the United States is breaking with her longtime denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention, citing the “staggering” disorientation of seeing its leaders support Mr. Trump, and the cultural and spiritual fallout from that support.

“There comes a time when you have to say, this is not who I am,” Beth Moore, told Religion News Service in an interview published on Tuesday. “I am still a Baptist, but I can no longer identify with Southern Baptists,” she added.

Her stature in the movement poses a serious challenge for the Southern Baptist Convention, which has already been embroiled for years in debates not just about Mr. Trump, but about racism, misogyny and the handling of sexual abuse cases. Its membership is in decline.

Her departure is “tectonic in its reverberations,” said Jemar Tisby, the president of a Black Christian collective called the Witness. “Beth Moore has more influence and more cachet with Southern Baptists, especially white Southern Baptist women, than the vast majority of Southern Baptist pastors or other leaders. So her leaving is not just about one individual.”

Unsurprisingly, the article cites Ms Moore’s personal experiences of sexism in the male dominated world of conservative Christianity and her denunciation of “the sexism and misogyny that is rampant in segments of the SBC”. It also deals with the corruption of power and the hierarchical desire to cover up charges of sexual misconduct and abuse. We know the Catholic church is not unique in its desire to brush such charges under the proverbial carpet.

Ms. Moore often spoke out against widespread sexual abuse in the denomination and the reluctance of churches to face it, while many men in leadership often soft-pedaled the issue.

Jenny Taylor, 40, who grew up in Southern Baptist churches, left one of the denomination’s most prominent churches, the Village, a few years ago, angered by its leaders’ treatment of a young woman who brought a sex abuse allegation against a former minister.

The article also refers to the racism experienced by black Christians from some of their white brethren. “Ms. Moore has also publicly supported others critical of conservative evangelicalism from within. This week Mr. Tisby, the president of the Black Christian collective, described on a podcast for the first time his experiences of racism in white evangelical communities. His testimony was part of a campaign called #LeaveLoud, to tell the stories of Black Christians leaving evangelical spaces.”

And as a finale we have Tom Buck whose comments come straight from the nethermost reaches of Christian narrow-minded and blinkered patriarchy.

“The fact that Beth Moore joyfully promotes herself as a woman who preaches to men is only the tip of the iceberg of her problematic positions,” Tom Buck, senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Lindale, Texas, said in a post online following the news.
“I sincerely wish Mrs. Moore had repented rather than left,” he wrote. “But if she refuses to repent, I am glad she is gone from the S.B.C. Sadly, leaving the S.B.C. won’t fix what is wrong with Beth Moore.”

For Mr Buck the SBC has nothing to which reproach it self and all the fault lies with Ms Moore, the woman.

Yes - I was thinking about starting my own thread on this - you beat me to it

She reflects a good deal of my own thinking wrt the compromises required for Christians to go 'all in' with Trump and the compromise of both our witness and our personal credulity as true followers of Christ that goes along with that.

[Cow Poke]

Oh good grief! I was being humorous.

It seems that on this occasion you missed my joke.

Now about those sexual abuse allegations and the alleged "soft-pedaling"... Any comment?

Answered.

[oxmixmudd]

"Hierarchy"? In the SBC?

Once again you have decided to enlighten us on yet another topic you know little to nothing about.

The fact the SBC is a looser coalition of churches that most denominations does not mean there is not a 'heirarchy'. The SBC itself has an elected leader and while they have no authority to directly impose doctrine on SBC churches, they do exert some influence, and it is possible for churches to be expelled from the SBC. In general, SBC churches do enforce a typically male heirarchy within their individual churches, though not all such churches do so. Pastors and Deacons especially tend to be limited to being male, and they hold the authority in each church.

So while Hypatia did not write a treatise on the differences between SBC governance and structure wrt other denominations, she is not wrong to say their exists a primarily male heirarchy within the convention itself and within the majority of its member churches.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Answered.

No you have not answered it. Commenting on the sexism, misogyny, and racism with the observation that "The SBC is made up of humans, so there will always be issues to be addressed" does not address any of those points. It merely offers an excuse.

When are you going to condemn those behaviours? Furthermore, given your apparent position, what actions is your church taking to address them?

[rogue06]

It is male dominated.

Are you seriously suggesting that within each "autonomous church" there is no deference shown to the pastor and/or elders?

The fact that you refer to it as a hierarchy is what demonstrates that you are clueless.

[rogue06]

The fact the SBC is a looser coalition of churches that most denominations does not mean there is not a 'heirarchy'. The SBC itself has an elected leader and while they have no authority to directly impose doctrine on SBC churches, they do exert some influence, and it is possible for churches to be expelled from the SBC. In general, SBC churches do enforce a typically male heirarchy within their individual churches, though not all such churches do so. Pastors and Deacons especially tend to be limited to being male, and they hold the authority in each church.

So while Hypatia did not write a treatise on the differences between SBC governance and structure wrt other denominations, she is not wrong to say their exists a primarily male heirarchy within the convention itself and within the majority of its member churches.

An elected leader that has no authority pretty much says it all

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The fact the SBC is a looser coalition of churches that most denominations does not mean there is not a 'heirarchy'. The SBC itself has an elected leader and while they have no authority to directly impose doctrine on SBC churches, they do exert some influence, and it is possible for churches to be expelled from the SBC. In general, SBC churches do enforce a typically male heirarchy within their individual churches, though not all such churches do so. Pastors and Deacons especially tend to be limited to being male, and they hold the authority in each church.

So while Hypatia did not write a treatise on the differences between SBC governance and structure wrt other denominations, she is not wrong to say their exists a primarily male heirarchy within the convention itself and within the majority of its member churches.

Thank you for that. It should also be remembered that from the earliest days of Christianity there was a male hierarchy, female deaconesses were known but they were under the authority of their male superiors.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

An elected leader that has no authority pretty much says it all

Only insofar as imposing doctrine, according to what oxmixmudd wrote.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The fact that you refer to it as a hierarchy is what demonstrates that you are clueless.

Any group of human beings will eventually develop some sort of hierarchy and the Christian church is no exception.

[Sparko]

Is that because she's a woman?

No. I just dislike any Christian "celebrity" that is in it for the fame and fortune rather than spreading the gospel. And she seems like one of those to me. I have seen her selling books and "classes" and seminars in my town for over a decade and heard her a couple of times on stage. She uses all of the right "jargon" and works the crowd like a politician or one of those self-help gurus. Comes off as very phony to me. Sort of reminds me of those fancy name it and claim it preachers like Joel Osteen. I never heard her preach anything heretical but just way too "slick" and commercial. And her fans are way over the top with all of the gushing and Beth Moore this, and Beth Moore that.

So I have just had a bad feeling about her

[Cow Poke]

No you have not answered it. Commenting on the sexism, misogyny, and racism with the observation that "The SBC is made up of humans, so there will always be issues to be addressed" does not address any of those points. It merely offers an excuse.

So, maybe we're done with your misconceptions, and you can ask specific questions?

When are you going to condemn those behaviours?

Being a proper role model, and condemning them whenever they come up.

Furthermore, given your apparent position, what actions is your church taking to address them?

I was being facetious about my elevated status - I was, at one time, moderator of 88 churches, but prefer to focus on my own.
I don't believe you'll find any sexual abuse or related problems in my church.

[Cow Poke]

An elected leader that has no authority pretty much says it all

He's a figurehead who gets to sign documents and make speeches, and get invited to churches who can boast "the President of the SBC preached here".

[Cow Poke]

Only insofar as imposing doctrine, according to what oxmixmudd wrote.

The President of the SBC does not impose doctrine in any sense of the word.

[Cow Poke]

No. I just dislike any Christian "celebrity" that is in it for the fame and fortune rather than spreading the gospel. And she seems like one of those to me. I have seen her selling books and "classes" and seminars in my town for over a decade and heard her a couple of times on stage. She uses all of the right "jargon" and works the crowd like a politician or one of those self-help gurus. Comes off as very phony to me. Sort of reminds me of those fancy name it and claim it preachers like Joel Osteen. I never heard her preach anything heretical but just way too "slick" and commercial. And her fans are way over the top with all of the gushing and Beth Moore this, and Beth Moore that.

So I have just had a bad feeling about her

She used her Southern Baptist associations to rise to power, and now she can jettison those because she "made it".

And, Joel Osteen --- as I have said, I knew his dad personally, and Joel is nothing like his father.