More than ever - SCHOOL CHOICE

[Leonhard]

Let's get out of the weeds, Leon. Trump ran on, among other things, school choice. So poor kids can go to good schools. Are you opposed to that?

Why would I be? Because I don't like the person he chose, and find the choice somewhat disturbing as to who precisely it was?

Can't I support the cause, and be critical of decisions in it?

[Cow Poke]

Not banging on all cylinders tonight I have to be honest. Got a nasty throat infection again, seems like only two months ago I had one that turned into pneumonia. Blech.

So sorry - if I allow my seasonal cough to get out of control, it turns to bronchitis and really hits hard. Stay on top of it, brother!

Like you I won't defend Obama on all things. His stance on abortion is foreign to me, as well as other decisions he made. I'm sorry I don't speak up enough about it, but I wasn't always aware of the specifics of the cases.

I get the rush of having a Republican as president, but if you want liberals to hold the feets of their leaders to the fire, why not start yourself?

I don't get this... you, and some of the liberals on this site, seem to think it's MY job to attack Trump. He'll get plenty of opposition. In fact, he's getting opposition from conservatives and liberals alike on his Sec of Ed pick - because she's FOR school choice (pro-choice libs HATE that) and supposedly supported common core (conservatives hate that). How bout we stay focused on her purpose and job function, Leon?

Usually when I'm a bit uncertain I pose it as a question. It bugged me enough that I had a feeling I was wrong, and went fact checking. I'm weaning myself of a tendency to edit every mistake in every post.

One of my friends got his friend (called Spencer) out of that cult. They were supposed to buy these saphires and try to sell them. My friend's grandfather was a jeweler and had taught him to know the difference between synthetic saphire and real saphire. "Spencer?" He said after studying it. "What you're holding here is a perfect, utterly flawless round saphire... Its worthless."

Took his friend back to the Amway people, talked very loudly about them getting people to buy worthless lab grown sapphires at way above market value, without educating them on what they were actually selling (a basically worthless product). Spencer got his money back.

OK, Amway bad! Let's focus on education.

[Cow Poke]

Why would I be? Because I don't like the person he chose, and find the choice somewhat disturbing as to who precisely it was?

So, I take it this is a round-about way of agreeing that school choice is a GOOD thing?

Can't I support the cause, and be critical of decisions in it?

Sure, but she's not being appointed the Ambassador to Amway, Leon. She has been a strong advocate of charter schools in particular, and school choice in general. That's why Trump selected her.

[Leonhard]

So sorry - if I allow my seasonal cough to get out of control, it turns to bronchitis and really hits hard. Stay on top of it, brother!

I can still work sorta, thankfully I'm doing IT so I can work from home. I'm on track to finish my project for the company. Cross your fingers that I'll be hired though. Even better pray to the Almighty. I consider having and keeping a job a substantial blessing from God.

I don't get this... you, and some of the liberals on this site, seem to think it's MY job to attack Trump. He'll get plenty of opposition. In fact, he's getting opposition from conservatives and liberals alike on his Sec of Ed pick - because she's FOR school choice (pro-choice libs HATE that) and supposedly supported common core (conservatives hate that). How bout we stay focused on her purpose and job function, Leon?

Noted, though I think we're all obligated out of integrity to be critical of our own leaders. I'll shelve it for now, I've spoken my peace about how fishy it looks. That was basically my only point.

Yeah... I've humble come to understand that accountability for mistakes is better than keeping on editing something half an hour after posting it.

Typos I spot right away I'll still fix.

So, I take it this is a round-about way of agreeing that school choice is a GOOD thing?

To the limited degree that I understand it. Its one of those areas where I can walk in here and listen to you guys talk about it, and then it makes perfect sense why its good, but if I sit down with knowledgeable person on the other side he seems perfectly reasonable as well.

So knowing little more than that, choice = good.

Sure, but she's not being appointed the Ambassador to Amway, Leon. She has been a strong advocate of charter schools in particular, and school choice in general. That's why Trump selected her.

Hmm, still don't like it.

[Cow Poke]

I can still work sorta, thankfully I'm doing IT so I can work from home. I'm on track to finish my project for the company. Cross your fingers that I'll be hired though. Even better pray to the Almighty. I consider having and keeping a job a substantial blessing from God.

Noted, though I think we're all obligated out of integrity to be critical of our own leaders. I'll shelve it for now, I've spoken my peace about how fishy it looks. That was basically my only point.

Yeah, I've been challenged on this before, so I rounded up a bunch of quotes of my disapproval of Trump. I see no reason to pile on when there are plenty of very vicious attackers. (not you, bro)

To the limited degree that I understand it. Its one of those areas where I can walk in here and listen to you guys talk about it, and then it makes perfect sense why its good, but if I sit down with knowledgeable person on the other side he seems perfectly reasonable as well.

So knowing little more than that, choice = good.

The public education system in America is one of the most inefficient and corrupt systems... many people get into "education" not so they can teach, but so that they can become a principal or administrator or other educrat -- most of our schools are so top heavy with "administration", and the teacher unions exist to protect and advance the rights of the teachers and employees, not the students. I would think that somebody like you, who valued truth and fairness, would see that a system that makes people rich off the very poor education of the masses is ridiculous.

In Houston, they're busy spending millions of education dollars renaming public schools because they had racist names -- like Thomas Jefferson Middle School or George Washington Elementary School. So, who are the new names? Local school principals and educrats, administrators.... it is a shrine to themselves. While they cry that they don't have funds for school books and paper and pencils -- they can spend millions on renaming schools?

We need competition. We need schools that focus on education, not on the careers of educrats.

Hmm, still don't like it.

Freedom!

[Jedidiah]

Why don't liberals support school choice? After all the word choice is in there. I mean it is widely popular in the inner cities, why shouldn't the poor have the opportunity to get their kids into Charter or private schools?

In liberal speak choice = control.

[firstfloor]

You're quoting the voices in your head?

The link was in your link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/us...strooms.html?v

My homeschooled daughter finished a year of college while still in high school, has 3 degrees, has just finished 5 years as a hospice nurse, and is beginning her career as a labor & delivery nurse, while continuing her formal education. Not bad for an ostrich, and I couldn't be more proud. On the other hand - you turned out like YOU!

I was not thinking of your daughter when I wrote ostrich. Who chooses home schooling? The parent or the child?

[Cow Poke]

I was not thinking of your daughter when I wrote ostrich. Who chooses home schooling? The parent or the child?

Both. One of my daughters chose homeschooling, the other public school. Sadly, the one who chose public school also made a whole bunch of other choices that were equally as bad.

[firstfloor]

Both. One of my daughters chose homeschooling, the other public school. Sadly, the one who chose public school also made a whole bunch of other choices that were equally as bad.

Having watched a few young people grow up I find it amazing that they generally go their own way and realise (or fail to realise) their own strengths despite what their parents want for them. I definitely think that the family needs to be not much more than a safe place that lets the child express themselves and take an interest in the things that they are attracted to. And it is important that the family teaches youngsters how to support themselves financially. Bad decisions are an ordinary and common part of living - we hope to learn from our mistakes - the more mistakes you accumulate, the smarter you get, paradoxically.

[Cow Poke]

- the more mistakes you accumulate, the smarter you get, paradoxically.

So, I should conclude you never made any mistakes, then.

[firstfloor]

So, I should conclude you never made any mistakes, then.

[Cow Poke]

Much better than handing out trophies just for trying.

I think home schooling works provided there is either great skill in the parent who is teaching or that the system being followed is sufficiently encouraging of the pupil to promote excellence and overcome adversity.

I think it's more about motive - some parents offer homeschooling because of the actual advantages in education, but there are others who just use it as an excuse to support their lazy parenting initiative. But you don't have to have "great skill" because of the excellent curriculum available. "Real" homeschooling prepares the student for college much better than public education, because the student is encouraged to set goals, make a plan for obtaining them, and find the resources they need to accomplish that.

When my youngest daughter stared college she was much more capable at using the library than I ever was.

And importantly, the patent should actually know what to teach and not just indoctrinate his/her own nonsense agenda in the poor unsuspecting child.

More of the "parents should just get out of the way and let the kid flounder" crap. Please tell me you haven't reproduced.

In a good formal education system (Texas is notoriously irrational) the curriculum is well thought out and of course many different paths and levels of attainment are available in a variety of subjects.

Unfortunately, in public schools, it doesn't matter what curriculum is used, or how well it is thought out, if there are massive discipline problems that prevent education from happening.

[Joel]

Regarding something like school vouchers, libertarians cannot accept a voucher program as a final goal. And I know many libertarians outright oppose voucher programs. But libertarians can and do get on board with incremental gains. I'm thinking that maybe the biggest hurdle to seeing how a voucher program is an incremental gain is not knowing what the exit plan is. As a temporary incremental measure, libertarians foresee that they will one day need to work to get rid of the voucher program that today they would work to create. So I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts regarding what the exit plan could be. (Same with other school-choice programs, such as charters.)

[stfoskey15]

Is DeVos a young Earth creationist, intelligent design supporter, or climate change disbeliever? Does she want government funds to go to schools that don't teach accurate science? I haven't heard much on her views on these issues, but if she wants unscientific things taught in schools, that would disqualify her, IMO.

[Joel]

Is DeVos a young Earth creationist, intelligent design supporter, or climate change disbeliever? Does she want government funds to go to schools that don't teach accurate science? I haven't heard much on her views on these issues, but if she wants unscientific things taught in schools, that would disqualify her, IMO.

From what I've read of her (and interviews with her), it sounds like she is for parental choice--which implies that she doesn't want the government to decide how parents educate their children. Which implies that she doesn't want to force children to be taught unscientific things.

It is those who prefer a government monopoly on education (and top-down standards) who want to force children to be taught (or not taught) certain things and in a certain way (and only from the hand of the state).