Originally posted by kiwimac
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Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by kiwimac View PostThe argument here is that, in Christian theology, ensoulement takes place at conception; this is a position based almost entirely on Greek philosophy and was largely formulated by St. Augustine of Hippo.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostWhere in the Bible is ensoulment spelled out as taking place at conception? Where is ensoulment taught as a real thing?Last edited by Tassman; 01-09-2018, 09:55 PM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYou meant that they are not your sort of Christian. In fact Pew research reveals that the majority of Christians support homosexual relations AND abortionOriginally posted by Tassman View PostYou mean that they're not your sort of Christian. But they are the majority of people who claim to be Christian and their views carry as much weight as yours.
But even if I accept your claim that they are the majority (ignoring for a moment the huge portion of them that are only nominally Christian, whose views on the matter can be completely disregarded) they would only be a majority when compared to all Christians currently living. From a historical perspective they're a microscopical minority.Last edited by JonathanL; 01-09-2018, 11:00 PM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI thought Kiwimac was Anglican for some reason.
Though in recent decades, as more of the population has become non-religious, the Anglican church has lost a lot of people in the pews, and also the Anglican seminary in Sydney is conservative-Calvinist and the result was that the Anglican church in NZ has actually changed quite a lot over the last 20 years. They actually opposed same-sex marriage (after previously supporting gay rights in the 50s-70s). Though in the last couple of years they have come around, and it now looks like they are going to split, with ~90% of the Anglican churches currently in the process of coming to the position of officially endorsing same-sex marriages, and ~10% of the Anglican churches (largely those led/influenced by conservative Sydney Anglicans) splitting off from the rest over the issue and their refusal to go along with the majority.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Kiwimac used to be a liberal Anglican and switched to Old Catholic (which I will confess to never having heard of until now) when the NZ Anglican communion changed to taking a non-liberal stance on gay rights ~7-10 years ago."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostBut even if I accept your claim that they are the majority (ignoring for a moment the huge portion of them that are only nominally Christian, whose views on the matter can be completely disregarded) they would only be a majority when compared to all Christians currently living. From a historical perspective they're a microscopical minority.
Give or take a little bit of fudging and approximation, it seems a reasonable estimate to say that about 50% of all Christian adults who have ever lived are alive today.
So any theory that Christians today should kow-tow to the viewpoints of prior Christians in history on the grounds that there were many magnitudes more of them than you, seems fundamentally flawed, because there weren't."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYou meant that they are not your sort of Christian. In fact Pew research reveals that the majority of Christians support homosexual relations AND abortionOriginally posted by Starlight View PostUm, do you realize that due to rapid population expansion in recent decades, the number of people adults currently living is actually approximately the same as the number of people who lived to adulthood over the past 2000 years combined?
Give or take a little bit of fudging and approximation, it seems a reasonable estimate to say that about 50% of all Christian adults who have ever lived are alive today.
So any theory that Christians today should kow-tow to the viewpoints of prior Christians in history on the grounds that there were many magnitudes more of them than you, seems fundamentally flawed, because there weren't.
Regardless, whether or not these so-called "Christians" are the majority or not (which I still do not think is the case if we remove everyone who is only nominally Christian), it still doesn't change the fact that Scripture is the standard to go by when judging if someone is a Christian or not, not majority opinion.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI'll take your word for it. I knew the global population growth in modern times were explosive, but I wasn't aware that it was to such a degree.
Regardless, whether or not these so-called "Christians" are the majority or not (which I still do not think is the case if we remove everyone who is only nominally Christian), it still doesn't change the fact that Scripture is the standard to go by when judging if someone is a Christian or not, not majority opinion.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostRegardless, whether or not these so-called "Christians" are the majority or not (which I still do not think is the case if we remove everyone who is only nominally Christian)
I recall one history I was reading about the Eastern Orthodox church's interactions with the West centuries ago, and the historian commented that one particular Bishop whom the EO selected to lead their envoy was generally thought to be an atheist and that the EO of the time was tolerant of that... nominal Christians seem to have been around at all times in history.
it still doesn't change the fact that Scripture is the standard to go by when judging if someone is a Christian or notLast edited by Starlight; 01-10-2018, 02:08 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI'll take your word for it. I knew the global population growth in modern times were explosive, but I wasn't aware that it was to such a degree.
Regardless, whether or not these so-called "Christians" are the majority or not (which I still do not think is the case if we remove everyone who is only nominally Christian), it still doesn't change the fact that Scripture is the standard to go by when judging if someone is a Christian or not, not majority opinion.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostPretty close to exponential in most parts of the world.
It's why a few of those crazy libs have gotten a tad concerned about population growth, because if you extrapolate that graph forward a few centuries, that's a lot of people using resources."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostYep...
It's why a few of those crazy libs have gotten a tad concerned about population growth, because if you extrapolate that graph forward a few centuries, that's a lot of people using resources."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostI thought we were supposed to have starved to death 40 years ago.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIt's the interpretation of scripture that's the problem. Jesus himself never addresses the issue of homosexuality or abortion.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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