Sexualisation of very young girls - US style

[mossrose]

Were I to follow Jesus of Nazareth I would be a practising Jew, as was he.

You are unbelieveably ignorant about who Jesus is.

[Maranatha]

In that case I judge me as one who continually and consistently tries to live as a child of Abba and a brother in the Christ.

That is good you judge yourself, as we are told to do. But you really should wait for God to pat your back about it, brother.

Someone else pointed out the key to love, perhaps you overlooked it.

The key to loving your neighbor as you do yourself is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength.

There is no bypass of the first command to elevate the second.

There is no climbing the fence into the sheep pen, you must go through the gate, Jesus Christ.

You simply cannot think these atheists here can just love men but hate God. It is impossible for man.

[Maranatha]

Y

You seem very confident that you are fully cognizant with the mind of God. Is that not just a little presumptuous?

That is an ignorant statement.

The Apostles were given the mind of Christ on matters of salvation. So when you read what they say, you can be sure it is what Christ wanted men to know. And you are also ignorant of Christ telling us the Spirit will teach us and lead us to these truths of Christ.

So it is actually two ways that your ignorance is displayed.

[thormas]

Were I to follow Jesus of Nazareth I would be a practising Jew, as was he.

That is exactly right and something too many Christians miss: Jesus was a practicing Jew, who observed the holy days and did all that was expected of a faithful Jew. Actually John's gospel, unlike the Synoptics, has him traveling to Jerusalem a number of times - not just at the end of his life.

Jesus followed the Law he simply gave it its best interpretation. The Law is for man, not man for the law. That is something we should apply to the Christian scriptures: they are for man, man is not for them - so they should not be used, as did the Pharisees and Scribes of old, to degrade or demean others or be used as instruments of judgement and condemnation. The scribes and pharisees received the wrath of Jesus for such words and actions, some Christians would be shocked that the same Jesus would also turn that anger on them.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Yes, I know you would think it more "loving" if I didn't tell you the gospel of Jesus Christ and let you carry on your way to hell.

Sorry, it's far more loving to tell you that you are going to hell if you don't repent and believe than if I did not warn you.

Were I to follow Jesus of Nazareth I would be a practising Jew, as was he.

[thormas]

Good grief, this is heresy straight from the pit of hell. Any man who rejects God and Jesus' resurrection will not be saved. The Bible is unambiguous on this point:

Scripture Verse: Matthew 10:32-33

So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

© Copyright Original Source

Belief in Christ is a requirement for salvation:

Scripture Verse: John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

© Copyright Original Source

You will not find a single verse that says, "He who does not believe yet does good works will be saved." Jesus Christ is not merely a way, he is THE way!

What you are presenting here is what Paul called "a different gospel", and he gave dire warnings to those who preach it:

Scripture Verse: Galatians 1:6-9

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

© Copyright Original Source

Your reaction is a bit incredulous especially in light of your attacks and dismissal of others.

Where exactly is that quote and how do you reconcile it with what Jesus said in Luke 10? Any answer?

Then there is this to consider: How can one deny him if they never heard of him or in hearing never understood who he was? And how can one be held responsible for their denial if the Church's explanation of the scriptures makes no sense for them or how about which Church since some disagree with Christians in other Churches? How about those who simply can't accept him after seeing how so many Christians act against the very scriptures they believe and preach?

What does belief mean to you? Is it simply saying I believe this or that or should belief be seen in action? And what if it is not seen, what if it is not there, what if a Christian says 'I believe' but does not love?

Whoever does not obey the Son- but we just showed in Luke that the Son had a conversation with the lawyer - that love, mercy is what one must do in order to inherit eternal life? So where is the obedience? If any do not love, if there is no mercy............then there is no obedience, there is nothing, there is no eternal life.

You have quotes but where is understanding, where is the explanation to explain the seeming contradictions?

Yet we have found the verse that says it is the work of love, of mercy that lets one inherit eternal life. And this simple verse is not from a different gospel but from the gospel of Luke.

Think it through MM ...........

[Mountain Man]

Well done MM, this man has not said Lord, Lord - he has shown, he has lived mercy; he is loving his neighbors and as Jesus said that is how one inherits life eternal. We have no idea why he doesn't believe but if he loves, he then can answer the question "when Lord, when did I feed, visit, shelter you - especially when I had no idea, especially when I rejected the very idea of you, when, how could I do this for you?" And the timeless answer, found in the gospel is "whenever you have done it to the least of mine." So indeed MM, God would say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant."

Good grief, this is heresy straight from the pit of hell. Any man who rejects God and Jesus' resurrection will not be saved. The Bible is unambiguous on this point:

Scripture Verse: Matthew 10:32-33

So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

© Copyright Original Source

Belief in Christ is a requirement for salvation:

Scripture Verse: John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

© Copyright Original Source

You will not find a single verse that says, "He who does not believe yet does good works will be saved." Jesus Christ is not merely a way, he is THE way!

What you are presenting here is what Paul called "a different gospel", and he gave dire warnings to those who preach it:

Scripture Verse: Galatians 1:6-9

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

© Copyright Original Source

[thormas]

Yes, I know you would think it more "loving" if I didn't tell you the gospel of Jesus Christ and let you carry on your way to hell.

Sorry, it's far more loving to tell you that you are going to hell if you don't repent and believe than if I did not warn you.

Actually this is not love. You seem, sadly, to not know love and therefore, you do not know God.

However, you will not go to hell, Hope springs eternal, look at the Prodigal.

[thormas]

The interpretations of theologians remain merely interpretations. There is no absolute and correct interpretation of these texts.

The only way that one interpretation can be designated as the "true" and/or "orthodox" interpretation is by its enforcement through law which is what the early Christian church did and it followed that with the threat punishment for anyone who offered any alternative interpretations

It is only attributed to Seneca.

Well thank you for your kind words.

Sadly we should be able to expect kind or at least kinder words from some self-described Christians but too often they are few and far between ........or simply missing completely. One can almost hear Gandhi: "“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

[thormas]

I know I said I was done, and I will be after I respond to this. Your comments on scripture are wrong. You can quote scripture and you can comment on it, but if you are taking it out of context and interpreting it in a way that does not line up with other scripture or completely changes the meaning of it, then neither your quoting nor your commenting is worth squat.

And I can judge who is and who is not a believer by their words and actions. You might be all full of love for everybody, but that does nothing to reconcile you to God. That is a works-based theology and is valueless.

Buh-bye now.

I'm just catching up, as I was busy, so I have no idea whether or not you said you were done or you were done or ..............whatever.

And I think it has been established that I am in context and have a defensible interpretation - especially compared to you and some others.

Thus it is evident you are not the best judge on these matters and do not really understand a good deal. First there is the matter of agape and now your closing statement that one can be full of love (and it is agape that we are discussing) but that does nothing to reconcile one to God. This is actually an amazing comment for any Christian to make and for one who presents herself as knowledgeable in these matters, it is simply sad.

You obviously don't understand what faith means in this context if you write loving and merciful actions off as 'work-based.' Especially, once again, in light of the words of Jesus on love/mercy and eternal life.

Now, if you wish, you may say 'buh-bye' but if you have the courage to actually have a conversation, I am here.

[thormas]

I am not interpreting it on my own.. I am following those scholars who have studied the Greek and Aramaic for decades and even hundreds of years, and it is only those who do not truly study but cherry pick that will interpret it however they want. Including those that call themselves atheists but love to throw their own interpretations at believers who actually not only believe in the person of Jesus Christ, His deity, but have the right view of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit according to what is laid out for us in the word of God.

You may quote Seneca in your sig line, but I tell you that God said in 1 Cor. 1

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those whoare perishing, but to us who ^[b]are being saved it is the power of God.

¹⁹ For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.”

²⁰ Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

²¹ For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

You are perishing, Hypatia. Your worldly wisdom will be destroyed by God and your cleverness will be as nothing unless you repent and believe.

Are you talking about me again? Have we compared notes on which scholars each of us reads/studies - and btw, all the critical biblical scholars have studied the languages of the scriptures - welcome to the world of scholarship.

There is no cherrypicking. In discussions such as those on this site, one does not have to quote the entire bible but simply either quotes those passages that s/he thinks is relevant to the point being made or, based on their experience and study, might simply make a statement and if someone wants to probe and delve into biblical references, they might ask.............politely.

I should also add that one does not have to be a believer to read and comment on the scriptures of any religion, including Christianity. Don't you know that already?

You seem to quote a good deal but where is the understanding? That you didn't even know how agape differs from one's love of a cat, a car or even one's family (storge btw) is amazing and telling as to your understanding of the Christian scriptures and Christianity.

There is no wisdom (no matter how many quotes one comes up with) if there is not love.

Why is it that those who tout their Christianity the loudest are the first to not actually live the agape called for in the gospels as evidenced by their harsh, even cruel treatment and demeaning comments about others? Interestingly, it is sometimes the atheist in whom agape resides.

[thormas]

You can believe your universalist/everybody who loves is saved gospel all you want to, but it is not the gospel of the scriptures and it is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. And when you preach a different gospel and a different Jesus, you are preaching heresy.

Carry on if you wish. I won't bother you anymore.

I simply give you Jesus on mercy/love and eternal life. Thus it is the part and parcel of the good news of the Christian scriptures.

[mossrose]

Well thank you for your kind words.

Yes, I know you would think it more "loving" if I didn't tell you the gospel of Jesus Christ and let you carry on your way to hell.

Sorry, it's far more loving to tell you that you are going to hell if you don't repent and believe than if I did not warn you.

[thormas]

Suppose there is a man who says in his heart, "There is no God," and thinks that only a fool could believe that Jesus rose from the dead and yet spends his weekends helping out at the local homeless shelter. Is it your understanding of scripture that God will look at such a man and say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant"?

Well done MM, this man has not said Lord, Lord - he has shown, he has lived mercy; he is loving his neighbors and as Jesus said that is how one inherits life eternal. We have no idea why he doesn't believe but if he loves, he then can answer the question "when Lord, when did I feed, visit, shelter you - especially when I had no idea, especially when I rejected the very idea of you, when, how could I do this for you?" And the timeless answer, found in the gospel is "whenever you have done it to the least of mine." So indeed MM, God would say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant."

[thormas]

Thormas my question is what did Jesus die for if eternal life could be gained by us loving our neighbour and showing mercy and helping injured strangers etc?

Esther,

What did he die for? Go back, first we should ask what did he live for? And the answer is us - so that we might have abundant life. And how is that accomplished? He gave us the answer: love, show mercy as the Good Samaritan, do unto others and you will have eternal life. This is the Way; He is the Way.

His entire life he died to (or refused) self-centeredness, note the temptations (to be for himself rather than for God and thereby repeat the sin of Adam). And, he was (in word and deed) the very epitome, the very embodiment of God, of Love. He announced the Kingdom, preached repentance, told all to prepare and in the midst of it all and in service to the Father - he taught and showed us how we should be............and that was to love (to be the image and likeness of God who is Love). As he lived, he died, still in service to the Father and for us.......so that we might be whole (healed), so that we might have Life. But how does this all work? Simple we, by baptism, enter into his death and his resurrection: we die to self-centeredness, to sin, and in this, in him, we rise to new life, the life of and with God. He is the Way of Salvation, of Healing, of Wholeness.

I didn't say eternal life is inherited by being merciful, by love of our neighbor - Jesus did. But that is the cross: the continual death to sin/selfishness is the way of Abundant Life.

In the Christ, it is actually done; it is accomplished. And as we eat this bread and drink this wine.....we are nourished so that we can go back into the world and love some more day in, day out.