Originally posted by Jaecp
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Are Trump Supporters Dumber?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhere is there anything IN the platform recognizing God or "the Creator" other than what was removed, then put back in over the strenuous objections of at least 50% of the delegates?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postok so Jaecp, back to my question. Why were they so upset about the wording regarding Jerusalem and Israel? Recognizing Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel is a problem? Why?
Originally posted by Jaecp View PostI'm not suuuuuper well informed on this (by my standards) as its not one of my pet issues but heres the gist I'd give you over coffee
Roughly half the party wants a 2 state solution, the other half wants 1. Making Jerusalem the official capital of Israel would mean that it doesn't have any legal status with Palestine. This platform plank essentially states, or at the very least would allow for the likelihood of, Israel having complete control of Jerusalem and every other religion just gets to visit. The final status stuff was pretty contentious in general. There is plenty of fear that even if a 2 state solution happens that Israel would take measures to basically prevent anyone from the now legal state of Palestine from obtaining a visa to visit their religions holy city. Theres also a bunch of stuff from the 60s involving the six days war, UN resolutions that helped end it, and that ultimately the Palestinians view east Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine while West Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
You know how some people in the American south still haven't gotten over losing the civil war like 150 years ago? Imagine if the civil war soldiers not only were alive still, but had to move from their homes to allow for northerners to take over. Anything involving israel palestine is contentious as hell, particularly because they were supposed to withdraw from the occupied territories as a condition of the peace but that obviously hasn't happened. To a lot of people it looks really messed up.
I'm not a religious man, as you well know, but I want people of faith to be able to live their lives in ways that fulfill themselves without it negatively impacting others and, the middle east being the middle east, thats not always so easy to accomplish, you know? Until Democrats broadly agree on something it really just shouldn't be in the platform.Last edited by Jaecp; 07-27-2016, 05:03 PM.
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Originally posted by Jaecp View PostI made a substantial reply to this on the last page
still not really getting it though (no fault of yours)
seems to me that Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel, and the DNC figuratively closing their eyes and going "nananananana" doesn't change that one way or another.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postthanks.
still not really getting it though (no fault of yours)
seems to me that Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel, and the DNC figuratively closing their eyes and going "nananananana" doesn't change that one way or another.
Look at how the territory pushed into that just so that Israel still has access to Jerusalem!
Cia-is-map2.jpg
As you can see, the green line was designed to give both sides access to the city because, like I said, West J was to be Israel's capital and East J was supposed to be Palestine. All 3 Abrahamic faiths quite like that city for various reasons, as you know. The way that the amendment was phrased would have basically given 100% of Jerusalem to Israel and taken it completely out of Palestines hands. Or, rather, it would have made it part of the party platform that we should do that, but a lot of Democrats support the sharing of the city for whatever reason that amendment just killed the other Amendment which was, if I recall, to use the phrase "God-given ability" instead of just ability. Or something. I just can't see that getting many people to care as opposed to an issue where the end result is people having to leave their homes.
Also, it's not "The DNC" that did this. Party platform's are created by the people who get onto the platform committee so it was The DNC putting both of those back in. As you know, Party leadership on both sides tends to be much closer to the center than the kinds of people who go to a political parties convention (you should check out Sam Bee's coverage of the Libertarian convention, its a hoot).
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Originally posted by Jaecp View PostSo it is currently the Capital, that's not really something anyone can disagree with. The issue is that because of what ended the war that broke out when we, you know, re-created the country on land that people were currently living on and war broke out and all that. So the conditions of the wars end, a big win for the UN, had Egypt and others backing away, agreeing to solid borders and so on. The people who had already been living there had to move, Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of them.
Look at how the territory pushed into that just so that Israel still has access to Jerusalem!
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWow. I am impressed by your ability to blithely get so much wrong information in one post.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWow. I am impressed by your ability to blithely get so much wrong information in one post.
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I just don't understand what the DNC's opinion has to do with the reality of the situation? Who cares if the DNC recognizes Jerusalem? They have no political power over what the USA recognizes officially, nor does their opinion make a lick of difference to anyone else in the world, including Israel. So why have a stance on the matter at all?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI just don't understand what the DNC's opinion has to do with the reality of the situation? Who cares if the DNC recognizes Jerusalem? They have no political power over what the USA recognizes officially, nor does their opinion make a lick of difference to anyone else in the world, including Israel. So why have a stance on the matter at all?
The DPP is one of the ways to tell our elected officials, and those who want to run, what the baseline is for being a Democrat. It's not about describing the world as it is. It's about describing what the world should be. And you meant no direct power, right? Surely you don't mean that the Democratic National Committee has no ability to influence the direction the country is going, right? Did you know that the head of the DNC and the vice chairs are usually members of Congress themselves? DWS is currently representing one of Florida's districts. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii resigned as Vice Chair so she could officially endorse Bernie.
As for why it matters, dude, this is America. We're kind of a big deal ;) Our President and the State Department will be involved in any sort of solution to the Israel Palestine conflict. Our permanent seat on the UN security counsel, NATO allies that follow our lead, and more.
You and the other people here might not give a lick about those opinions, but other world powers absolutely do. Did you know that all of North America, the vast vast majority of Western Europe, Japan, Australia and a few scattered countries don't even recognize Palestine as its own state?
Don't underestimate the United States level of impact in the world, and even if you do, the people who voted no on that resolution certainly don't.Last edited by Jaecp; 07-28-2016, 08:52 AM.
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