Are Trump Supporters Dumber?

[Cow Poke]

What specifically was taken out of the platform? What was the actual, removed language?

Where is there anything IN the platform recognizing God or "the Creator" other than what was removed, then put back in over the strenuous objections of at least 50% of the delegates?

[Sparko]

ok so Jaecp, back to my question. Why were they so upset about the wording regarding Jerusalem and Israel? Recognizing Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel is a problem? Why?

[Jaecp]

Where is there anything IN the platform recognizing God or "the Creator" other than what was removed, then put back in over the strenuous objections of at least 50% of the delegates?

Yes, CP, but what WAS removed? If you're going to try to claim that the removal somehow proves that we're anti-God without actually knowing what was removed then you're engaging in partisan hackery and not an actual discussion.

[Jaecp]

ok so Jaecp, back to my question. Why were they so upset about the wording regarding Jerusalem and Israel? Recognizing Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel is a problem? Why?

I made a substantial reply to this on the last page

I'm not suuuuuper well informed on this (by my standards) as its not one of my pet issues but heres the gist I'd give you over coffee

Roughly half the party wants a 2 state solution, the other half wants 1. Making Jerusalem the official capital of Israel would mean that it doesn't have any legal status with Palestine. This platform plank essentially states, or at the very least would allow for the likelihood of, Israel having complete control of Jerusalem and every other religion just gets to visit. The final status stuff was pretty contentious in general. There is plenty of fear that even if a 2 state solution happens that Israel would take measures to basically prevent anyone from the now legal state of Palestine from obtaining a visa to visit their religions holy city. Theres also a bunch of stuff from the 60s involving the six days war, UN resolutions that helped end it, and that ultimately the Palestinians view east Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine while West Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

You know how some people in the American south still haven't gotten over losing the civil war like 150 years ago? Imagine if the civil war soldiers not only were alive still, but had to move from their homes to allow for northerners to take over. Anything involving israel palestine is contentious as hell, particularly because they were supposed to withdraw from the occupied territories as a condition of the peace but that obviously hasn't happened. To a lot of people it looks really messed up.

I'm not a religious man, as you well know, but I want people of faith to be able to live their lives in ways that fulfill themselves without it negatively impacting others and, the middle east being the middle east, thats not always so easy to accomplish, you know? Until Democrats broadly agree on something it really just shouldn't be in the platform.

Israel has been in violation of the UN stuff that ended the 6 day war. Thats why you hear about stuff like illegal settlements and such whenever this comes up in the news.

[Jaecp]

Lol, you realize I posted that like 15 minutes after you asked :P

[Sparko]

I made a substantial reply to this on the last page

thanks.

still not really getting it though (no fault of yours)

seems to me that Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel, and the DNC figuratively closing their eyes and going "nananananana" doesn't change that one way or another.

[Jaecp]

thanks.

still not really getting it though (no fault of yours)

seems to me that Jerusalem IS the Capital of Israel, and the DNC figuratively closing their eyes and going "nananananana" doesn't change that one way or another.

So it is currently the Capital, that's not really something anyone can disagree with. The issue is that because of what ended the war that broke out when we, you know, re-created the country on land that people were currently living on and war broke out and all that. So the conditions of the wars end, a big win for the UN, had Egypt and others backing away, agreeing to solid borders and so on. The people who had already been living there had to move, Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of them.


Look at how the territory pushed into that just so that Israel still has access to Jerusalem!
Cia-is-map2.jpg

As you can see, the green line was designed to give both sides access to the city because, like I said, West J was to be Israel's capital and East J was supposed to be Palestine. All 3 Abrahamic faiths quite like that city for various reasons, as you know. The way that the amendment was phrased would have basically given 100% of Jerusalem to Israel and taken it completely out of Palestines hands. Or, rather, it would have made it part of the party platform that we should do that, but a lot of Democrats support the sharing of the city for whatever reason that amendment just killed the other Amendment which was, if I recall, to use the phrase "God-given ability" instead of just ability. Or something. I just can't see that getting many people to care as opposed to an issue where the end result is people having to leave their homes.

Also, it's not "The DNC" that did this. Party platform's are created by the people who get onto the platform committee so it was The DNC putting both of those back in. As you know, Party leadership on both sides tends to be much closer to the center than the kinds of people who go to a political parties convention (you should check out Sam Bee's coverage of the Libertarian convention, its a hoot).

[One Bad Pig]

So it is currently the Capital, that's not really something anyone can disagree with. The issue is that because of what ended the war that broke out when we, you know, re-created the country on land that people were currently living on and war broke out and all that. So the conditions of the wars end, a big win for the UN, had Egypt and others backing away, agreeing to solid borders and so on. The people who had already been living there had to move, Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of them.


Look at how the territory pushed into that just so that Israel still has access to Jerusalem!
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Wow. I am impressed by your ability to blithely get so much wrong information in one post.

[Cow Poke]

Wow. I am impressed by your ability to blithely get so much wrong information in one post.

Yeah, I started to respond, but, sheeeesh!

[Jaecp]

Wow. I am impressed by your ability to blithely get so much wrong information in one post.

Feel free to correct me. This isn't my area of specialization. I am posting, and continuing to post, solely because Sparko asked me why its a contentious issue among Democrats

[Sparko]

I just don't understand what the DNC's opinion has to do with the reality of the situation? Who cares if the DNC recognizes Jerusalem? They have no political power over what the USA recognizes officially, nor does their opinion make a lick of difference to anyone else in the world, including Israel. So why have a stance on the matter at all?

[Jaecp]

I just don't understand what the DNC's opinion has to do with the reality of the situation? Who cares if the DNC recognizes Jerusalem? They have no political power over what the USA recognizes officially, nor does their opinion make a lick of difference to anyone else in the world, including Israel. So why have a stance on the matter at all?

It's not the DNC's opinion. The Democratic Party Platform is what Democrats come together to create that encapsulates our goals and values. That's why there are people from every state on the committee and many (most, I think, actually) of the resolutions to be adopted come up through the state party system all the way down to the county level. I voted on resolutions that were later presented at the State, where I again voted on them, to be passed on now to the National level this week. The Democratic Party Platform is the closest thing there is to a unifying document for the hundred million Democrats in the country.

The DPP is one of the ways to tell our elected officials, and those who want to run, what the baseline is for being a Democrat. It's not about describing the world as it is. It's about describing what the world should be. And you meant no direct power, right? Surely you don't mean that the Democratic National Committee has no ability to influence the direction the country is going, right? Did you know that the head of the DNC and the vice chairs are usually members of Congress themselves? DWS is currently representing one of Florida's districts. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii resigned as Vice Chair so she could officially endorse Bernie.

As for why it matters, dude, this is America. We're kind of a big deal ;) Our President and the State Department will be involved in any sort of solution to the Israel Palestine conflict. Our permanent seat on the UN security counsel, NATO allies that follow our lead, and more.

You and the other people here might not give a lick about those opinions, but other world powers absolutely do. Did you know that all of North America, the vast vast majority of Western Europe, Japan, Australia and a few scattered countries don't even recognize Palestine as its own state?

Don't underestimate the United States level of impact in the world, and even if you do, the people who voted no on that resolution certainly don't.