#BlackLivesMatter... Black Queer Youth .... Getting Weirder and Weirder

[Adrift]

I read this several times, and I'm not sure what your point is. Care to summarize?

Hmm. I thought I was pretty clear, but okay. I was agreeing with your support for American police because. 1.) It's unfair to make comparisons between what cops in the US and elsewhere face given the drastic differences between our cultures, and 2.) The image of American cops in the media as notoriously impatient, and trigger happy is mostly untrue for the vast majority out there.

[Cow Poke]

Hmm. I thought I was pretty clear, but okay. I was agreeing with your support for American police because. 1.) It's unfair to make comparisons between what cops in the US and elsewhere face given the drastic differences between our cultures, and 2.) The image of American cops in the media as notoriously impatient, and trigger happy is mostly untrue for the vast majority out there.

OK, that's what I thought. Thanks.

[seer]

No kidding, less cops more crime!

(Reuters) - Already beset by a public outcry over the high-profile death of a black man in police custody and a rising murder rate, Baltimore's police department is facing another headache: it's shrinking fast.

The number of uniformed officers in the mid-Atlantic city fell 6.1 percent last year and has shrunk by even more in the first half of this year, according to police data seen by Reuters and not previously reported.

The fall in 2015 was the biggest decline in police numbers among nine comparably-sized U.S. cities reviewed by Reuters. The police force in Detroit and El Paso shrank by 4.9 percent and 4.3 percent, respectively, while Denver and Las Vegas saw increases of over 5 percent.

The reasons for the fall are unclear, but it comes at a difficult time when the number of murders and other violent crimes have risen sharply in Baltimore and many other U.S. cities.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/baltimore-...050511229.html

[Cow Poke]

No kidding, less cops more crime!

yup - the Ferguson Effect - and it really impacts the minority communities who need the most protection.

[Starlight]

2.) The image of American cops in the media as notoriously impatient, and trigger happy is mostly untrue for the vast majority out there.

It may well be that the majority of US cops are great and amazing people, who are patient, kind and thoughtful. However, the way in which police seem to en masse reflexively close ranks to defend terrible behavior from other officers, every time a video emerges documenting such terrible behavior, rather than calling it out as unacceptable and unusual and needing investigation, makes people suspicious that the majority might be as guilty as those they defend.

[seanD]

It may well be that the majority of US cops are great and amazing people, who are patient, kind and thoughtful. However, the way in which police seem to en masse reflexively close ranks to defend terrible behavior from other officers, every time a video emerges documenting such terrible behavior, rather than calling it out as unacceptable and unusual and needing investigation, makes people suspicious that the majority might be as guilty as those they defend.

Perfect example...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2077632

And...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7190262.html

[Cow Poke]

It may well be that the majority of US cops are great and amazing people, who are patient, kind and thoughtful. However, the way in which police seem to en masse reflexively close ranks to defend terrible behavior from other officers, every time a video emerges documenting such terrible behavior, rather than calling it out as unacceptable and unusual and needing investigation, makes people suspicious that the majority might be as guilty as those they defend.

And I think it's time to stop that. I think it would increase trust in law enforcement when there's a very clear case of abuse of power to denounce the abuses. And more body cams and cell phones will make that clearer.

Here's a problem, though -- the "video" often starts at, or shortly after, the offense, and very rarely shows what led up to it.

I like the (was it Cleveland, OH) response that "we wanted to get in front of this, so we immediately released the 911 phone call and body cam video so the community could see what happened."

That flies in the face of "we can't comment, because it's still under investigation".

[Cow Poke]

It may well be that the majority of US cops are great and amazing people, who are patient, kind and thoughtful. However, the way in which police seem to en masse reflexively close ranks to defend terrible behavior from other officers, every time a video emerges documenting such terrible behavior, rather than calling it out as unacceptable and unusual and needing investigation, makes people suspicious that the majority might be as guilty as those they defend.

I think the problem has been aggravated substantially the last couple years because of Obama's penchant to jump in with pronouncements before all the facts are in.

He is (and was) in a tremendous position to call for calm and insist that we wait on all the facts to be in. Instead, you have him and that wacko prosecutor in Baltimore, for example, trying and convicting the Baltimore cops in the media, flaming the fires of rioting.

[KingsGambit]

I don't see anybody rushing to defend the officer in Minnesota from yesterday, which is interesting. The only other shooting I can think of offhand where nobody rushed to defend the officer was the one in South Carolina that was caught on camera where the guy fired as the criminal ran away, then was seen planting a gun.

Maybe this is the start of the sort of change CP mentioned a moment ago. I know there are race baiters but with the two incidents in the last two days on top of everything else, I honestly do see why many black people are outright fearful of police (especially after the incidents like the one in Minnesota where the guy was just reaching for his license upon being asked for it). I think this is the one way that this culture of fear can be chipped away at.

I know you won't be able to please everybody. It's an impossible goal. but I think the goal should be to get to a point where your average black American is on board with the police.

[Cow Poke]

Something I wonder, though....

I wonder if there's any proof that blacks - justifiably or no - react differently to being stopped than whites under similar circumstances.

Yeah, it's been ages since I was a cop, but, especially at night, as you approach that stopped vehicle, you're looking for all kinds of clues for potential trouble. Many people will have their hands on the steering wheel, and maybe even an internal light on to show they're not a threat.

Attitude is also a key indicator that will either set a cop at ease or raise his adrenaline.

A black, for example, who has been stopped multiple times and is really tired of it, may exhibit behavior that only aggravates the situation, kinda like a self-fulfilled prophecy, and setting the cop on edge.

[Raphael]

I don't see anybody rushing to defend the officer in Minnesota from yesterday, which is interesting. The only other shooting I can think of offhand where nobody rushed to defend the officer was the one in South Carolina that was caught on camera where the guy fired as the criminal ran away, then was seen planting a gun.

Maybe this is the start of the sort of change CP mentioned a moment ago. I know there are race baiters but with the two incidents in the last two days on top of everything else, I honestly do see why many black people are outright fearful of police (especially after the incidents like the one in Minnesota where the guy was just reaching for his license upon being asked for it). I think this is the one way that this culture of fear can be chipped away at.

I know you won't be able to please everybody. It's an impossible goal. but I think the goal should be to get to a point where your average black American is on board with the police.

With the Minnesota shooting, everyone I've encountered so far is completely appalled at it. (but then a fair chunk of those are not Americans so I may or may not be getting a different picture of it).

[KingsGambit]

With the Minnesota shooting, everyone I've encountered so far is completely appalled at it. (but then a fair chunk of those are not Americans so I may or may not be getting a different picture of it).

I already see people on my Facebook lining up to attack the guy in Tuesday's Louisiana shooting.

[seer]

With the Minnesota shooting, everyone I've encountered so far is completely appalled at it. (but then a fair chunk of those are not Americans so I may or may not be getting a different picture of it).

From what I have see so far these were unjustified killings - murder. Just horrible.

[KingsGambit]

Something I wonder, though....

I wonder if there's any proof that blacks - justifiably or no - react differently to being stopped than whites under similar circumstances.

Yeah, it's been ages since I was a cop, but, especially at night, as you approach that stopped vehicle, you're looking for all kinds of clues for potential trouble. Many people will have their hands on the steering wheel, and maybe even an internal light on to show they're not a threat.

Attitude is also a key indicator that will either set a cop at ease or raise his adrenaline.

A black, for example, who has been stopped multiple times and is really tired of it, may exhibit behavior that only aggravates the situation, kinda like a self-fulfilled prophecy, and setting the cop on edge.

I think there's probably something to that. A few years ago in my hometown, a black guy got pulled over for "speeding". He knew he wasn't so he asked them to roll the cameras, and it turned out the officer was specifically targeting black people to pull over.

It wouldn't explain every incident, of course. It appears the guy in Minnesota was going out of his way to cooperate with police, letting him know about his concealed weapon ahead of time. The officer immediately knew he had made a mistake based on his reaction. It's a split second decision and tragically, sometimes those go wrong.

[seanD]

I don't see anybody rushing to defend the officer in Minnesota from yesterday, which is interesting. The only other shooting I can think of offhand where nobody rushed to defend the officer was the one in South Carolina that was caught on camera where the guy fired as the criminal ran away, then was seen planting a gun.

Maybe this is the start of the sort of change CP mentioned a moment ago. I know there are race baiters but with the two incidents in the last two days on top of everything else, I honestly do see why many black people are outright fearful of police (especially after the incidents like the one in Minnesota where the guy was just reaching for his license upon being asked for it). I think this is the one way that this culture of fear can be chipped away at.

I know you won't be able to please everybody. It's an impossible goal. but I think the goal should be to get to a point where your average black American is on board with the police.

Maybe because the cop was clearly in the wrong. Based on how hysterical he is in the video, he seems to know it too. Although, I also don't see many people defending the cops in the Baton Rouge incident even though they looked more justified. Maybe it's not a result of change, but the result of video evidence. People are more reluctant to take the side of the cop when video evidence is available.