Hillary's Troubles Solidify

[Starlight]

And yet the liberal progressives are picking her (the corrupt establishment) over someone like Sanders (the non-establishment). What does that say about progressives?

LOL, in general the liberal progressives are all-in for Sanders. In my entire politically-interested life I have literally never seen liberal progressives be so excited about any candidate as they are about Sanders.

[seanD]

LOL, in general the liberal progressives are all-in for Sanders. In my entire politically-interested life I have literally never seen liberal progressives be so excited about any candidate as they are about Sanders.

Then who are her supporters and why is she soundly beating Bernie? And please don't go on about super delegates. Trump was facing the same controversy just the same, yet his support was so massive it smothered any controversy about his nomination in the end.

[Starlight]

Then who are her supporters

Centrists, the establishment, and people who don't follow politics much who recognize her name and get told by establishment media how great she is.

and why is she soundly beating Bernie?

She isn't, she's winning slightly. That's because Hillary Clinton started the race with basically 100% name-recognition, and the democratic establishment and media in her pocket. Sanders started the race virtually unknown. Despite that, he almost beat her.

Trump was facing the same controversy just the same

Trump, like Clinton, started the race with huge name-recognition. There were also 16 people in the Republican primary, and all that you need to do to win a multi-way race is to be sufficiently controversial that all the media attention focuses on you. He was good at doing that. And then the multi-way race split the opposition vote for him.

[Jaecp]

Sanders polled under Biden for months.

Biden never even announced, let alone campaigned.

Sanders earliest campaign events last year drew about 2 dozen people.

He has had the single biggest shift in public polling in us history

[seanD]

Centrists, the establishment, and people who don't follow politics much who recognize her name and get told by establishment media how great she is.

Translation: the majority of progressives that are low information and gullible morons -- establishment useful idiots and tools. Maybe if those morons focused their protests on Hillary instead of Trump, who already had the nomination, they would have made a bit more headway for Bernie.

Since you butcher my posts, I'll butcher yours.

[Starlight]

Translation: the majority of progressives that are low information and gullible morons

Um, I think you're calling a lot of people progressives who I wouldn't call progressive.

Perhaps you are meaning "democratic voters"? I've got no issue with saying that the majority of democratic voters are low information and gullible, just as the majority of republican voters are. Most people don't have the time, the inclination, or the brains, to do anything more than go with their gut if they bother to vote.

Just to clarify terms, I'm sure you'd agree that "tea party", "libertarian", "religious right" and "republican" are not exactly the same thing as each other... those are different, but overlapping, groups of people, and no two of those terms refers to exactly the same group of people. In the same way "liberals" or "progressives" (those two terms are sometimes used interchangeably with each other, although the term liberal is broader - ie all progressives are "liberal" but not all people who are liberal are "progressive") are not the same thing as "democrats". "Progressives" refers to a moderately-sized segment of democrats and independents, who are much further left and more liberal in their views than is the average politican within the democratic party (think similar to the way the Tea Party is more extreme than the Republican politicians). In the same way, "liberal progressives" are not the same group of people as "people who vote in democratic primaries", which is presumably the group you were asking about when you asked why so many of them voted for Hillary. The liberal progressives like Hillary about as much as the tea party likes John Boehner.

Averagely ignorant democratic voters voted for Hillary. Progressives, who are the left-wing version of the tea party, are not at all fans of Hillary. Bernie Sanders literally co-founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus (to which 71 of 234 congressional democrats belong, ie the most liberal/left-wing 30% of the party).

[Cow Poke]

LOL, in general the liberal progressives are all-in for Sanders. In my entire politically-interested life I have literally never seen liberal progressives be so excited about any candidate as they are about Sanders.

Who doesn't love FREE STUFF?

[seanD]

Who doesn't love FREE STUFF?

What they don't get apparently is that the free stuff will continue whether it's Bernie, Hillary or Trump. Only difference will be whether the candidate openly admits it or not

[seanD]

Um, I think you're calling a lot of people progressives who I wouldn't call progressive.

Perhaps you are meaning "democratic voters"? I've got no issue with saying that the majority of democratic voters are low information and gullible, just as the majority of republican voters are. Most people don't have the time, the inclination, or the brains, to do anything more than go with their gut if they bother to vote.

Just to clarify terms, I'm sure you'd agree that "tea party", "libertarian", "religious right" and "republican" are not exactly the same thing as each other... those are different, but overlapping, groups of people, and no two of those terms refers to exactly the same group of people. In the same way "liberals" or "progressives" (those two terms are sometimes used interchangeably with each other, although the term liberal is broader - ie all progressives are "liberal" but not all people who are liberal are "progressive") are not the same thing as "democrats". "Progressives" refers to a moderately-sized segment of democrats and independents, who are much further left and more liberal in their views than is the average politican within the democratic party (think similar to the way the Tea Party is more extreme than the Republican politicians). In the same way, "liberal progressives" are not the same group of people as "people who vote in democratic primaries", which is presumably the group you were asking about when you asked why so many of them voted for Hillary. The liberal progressives like Hillary about as much as the tea party likes John Boehner.

Averagely ignorant democratic voters voted for Hillary. Progressives, who are the left-wing version of the tea party, are not at all fans of Hillary. Bernie Sanders literally co-founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus (to which 71 of 234 congressional democrats belong, ie the most liberal/left-wing 30% of the party).

I don't pay much heed to political titles, even the ones on the right. I might do it occasionally for the sake of clarification, but... meh.

[Starlight]

I don't pay much heed to political titles, even the ones on the right. I might do it occasionally for the sake of clarification, but... meh.

Um, well people communicate using words, and if you use different words to everyone else, don't expect people to understand what you're talking about.

[seanD]

Um, well people communicate using words, and if you use different words to everyone else, don't expect people to understand what you're talking about.

I usually just call the left liberals or progressives. The right Republicans or conservatives. If the discussion is about warmongering, I usually use the term neocon in reference to either party doing the warmongering. Sorry about the confusion.

[Terraceth]

And yet the liberal progressives are picking her (the corrupt establishment) over someone like Sanders (the non-establishment). What does that say about progressives?

It says that unlike Trump, who benefited from there being several guys to split the 'establishment' vote (at least in the early primaries) as well as coverage, Hillary was lucky enough to have only one real opponent who wasn't establishment.

If it had just been Trump, Cruz, and Kasich at the start, I don't think Trump would have gotten the nomination.

[Jaecp]

Ding ding ding

[One Bad Pig]

Back to the topic du thread. It appears that Hillary's server was set up and maintained by 1) a civilian aide of Bill's who had no relevant experience and had no security clearance and 2) a State Department political employee who was doing it on the side, including during normal working hours when he was ostensibly doing his official job, breaking a host of regulations.

[Bill the Cat]

Back to the topic du thread. It appears that Hillary's server was set up and maintained by 1) a civilian aide of Bill's who had no relevant experience and had no security clearance and 2) a State Department political employee who was doing it on the side, including during normal working hours when he was ostensibly doing his official job, breaking a host of regulations.

Wow...