The Bernie Gimme Gimme Gimme Crowd

[lilpixieofterror]

what ? (again "what?", have to get used to replying to you often a "what?" because your replies come from some other dimension or some other conversation, or God knows where)

So why did you bring up the dust bowl and act as though that was a mark against free enterprise? I'm asking you if communism could have done a better job at preventing it or dealing with it. You haven't answered, but you've sure spent lots of time whining and crying about me asking you to answer a simple question and throwing out false accusations of me 'changing up your post' because I dared to ask you follow up questions to your claims.

so what is the deal, are you debating someone else at the same time and getting your replies mixed up?

What is the point of bringing up the dust bowl and blaming free market enterprise if you were not trying to say that communism would have prevented it or done a better job at it? It's pretty obvious to anybody with a fully functional brain what you were trying to imply. You were trying to imply that free market creates disasters, which while true, you haven't established

This time the "what?" is to your "it starts with the assumption that everybody is the exact same"

Because it's true and again, you want to avoid the reality. To rid yourself of classes is to say that everybody is the same. Do you not pay attention to the application of your own words and arguments JR or do you hope that the rest of us don't think too closely to what you are saying? To say there should be a 'classless society' is to imply that everybody is the same. Do you not see the application of your own words?

since when?

Since when does Marxism "starts with the assumption that everybody is the exact same"

Why do classes exist and end up the way they do?

The Marxist axiom is that everybody IS NOT THE SAME.

Nope, wrong again. The axiom is that everybody is the same because it says that some do not deserve what they got and it needs to be taken away from them.

"From each according to his ability to each according to his need"

How in the world do you get from that , that it is claiming everybody is the exact same ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Logic JR. Something communist never use.

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...it copies the Biblical Ideal, from Acts 2 and 4

ACTS 2:44-45
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ACTS 4:34-35
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.


LPOT, .....why do you do these things, why do you replace people's positions with some other positions.

Are you done with your ranting yet or do you want to keep throwing out more Bible verses to avoid answering questions and arguments you can't answer?

[Cow Poke]

...it copies the Biblical Ideal, from Acts 2 and 4

ACTS 2:44-45
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ACTS 4:34-35
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.


LPOT, .....why do you do these things, why do you replace people's positions with some other positions.

So, you're taking a situation where the Spirit of the Living God was operating, and there was unity in the Spirit, and people VOLUNTARILY cared for one another....

and in your dopey atheist mindset, you think atheism can duplicate that?

What you need to be doing, dear Starry One, is praying and hoping for an honest-to-goodness Holy Ghost Revival!

[lilpixieofterror]

When will you lot stop conflating a government system with a non-governed group of communal Christians in Acts 2???

Than his beliefs would end up falling in on themselves.

[Cow Poke]

When will you lot stop conflating a government system with a non-governed group of communal Christians in Acts 2???

It's all he's got!

[JimL]

Why do you liberals always talk as if there is this giant pile of money somewhere that the "rich" are just taking too much of because of greed. Money isn't a resource that needs to be distributed. Wealth is created and earned. It doesn't even exist till the "rich" folks you hate so much create it. It is not just paper that the Government prints up. Wealth is the value of labor and goods, and the paper just represents it. Without actual value there, the money the government prints is just pretty paper.

We liberals don't, its just that you conservatives don't get the point being made. The money being redistributed is a result of it not being distributed fairly in the first place because of the greed of the powers that be. The great wealth of those with the power is earned by the labor of those without power. Unionization of the workers put some of the power back in the hands of the creators of that wealth wherein they were able to bargain for an equitable share of the profits earned. But of course greed is never satisfied and the corporations put their cash to work in the political system in order to crush the unions and the workers ability to bargain for equity. If they had their way, they would take it all, and the rest of us would be slave laborers just as they are now in places where the government allows it. You guys just have no appreciation for what those who went before you went through in order to make your lives better. Wealth is created, yes, but what you don't seem to recognize is the fact that though the wealthy finance it, the workers produce it and that the economy has to work for everyone in order to work at all. Henry Ford understood that, i.e. that without money in the pockets of the workers there could be production but there would be no sales.

So tell me where this magical pile of wealth is warehoused for distribution, JimL.

Mostly hidden in offshore havens to avoid paying their fair share of taxes as well.

[jordanriver]

So, you're taking a situation where the Spirit of the Living God was operating, and there was unity in the Spirit, and people VOLUNTARILY cared for one another....

and in your dopey atheist mindset, you think atheism can duplicate that?

What you need to be doing, dear Starry One, is praying and hoping for an honest-to-goodness Holy Ghost Revival!

you're just as bad as little pixie.
I only said Marx copied the Biblical model, ....after all, it does look like a good idea.


and again you are just like little pixie , making it look like I am atheist, I am a born again Christian, I believe I KNOW Jesus Christ is the member of the Trinity who did the actual Creating of everything that exists (all things created by Him and for Him) , and my FAITH part is that Jesus Christ removes my sins past present and future if I give up ownership of myself and turn ownership of me over to Him.

[lilpixieofterror]

you're just as bad as little pixie.
I only said Marx copied the Biblical model, ....after all, it does look like a good idea.


and again you are just like little pixie , making it look like I am atheist, I am a born again Christian, I believe I KNOW Jesus Christ is the member of the Trinity who did the actual Creating of everything that exists (all things created by Him and for Him) , and my FAITH part is that Jesus Christ removes my sins past present and future if I give up ownership of myself and turn ownership of me over to Him.

"Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo."
Karl Marx

Yep, sounds like the words of somebody who loved Christianity.

[jordanriver]

[QUOTE=lilpixieofterror;324756]So why did you bring up the dust bowl and act as though that was a mark against free enterprise?

in context with the original premise of this thread, that socialism causes disasters , using Venezuela as example, and that Capitalism is the answer and savior of economics because "because the market allows farmers and companies to innovate"

it was the market that destroyed Venezuela.

[Cow Poke]

you're just as bad as little pixie.

Worse!

I only said Marx copied the Biblical model, ....after all, it does look like a good idea.

And that's why it's so birdbrained dumb. The REASON the Biblical model worked was because the Holy Spirit was involved. Murderous Marx had no such idea in mind.

and again you are just like little pixie , making it look like I am atheist,

My apologies - I was reading another post by the Starry One, and I goofed, thinking this was you.

I am a born again Christian,

Albeit terribly misguided.

I believe I KNOW Jesus Christ is the member of the Trinity who did the actual Creating of everything that exists (all things created by Him and for Him) , and my FAITH part is that Jesus Christ removes my sins past present and future if I give up ownership of myself and turn ownership of me over to Him.

Then it's time to grow up and abandon Marx, and embrace Christ!

[lilpixieofterror]

in context with the original premise of this thread, that socialism causes disasters , using Venezuela as example, and that Capitalism is the answer and savior of economics because "because the market allows farmers and companies to innovate"

it was the market that destroyed Venezuela.

That's right, even though Venezuela went communist years ago, BLAME FREE MARKET because JR isn't capable of admitting that his beloved system is a total failure.

[jordanriver]

"Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo."
Karl Marx

Yep, sounds like the words of somebody who loved Christianity.

OH FOR FREAKS SAKES

again another "what?????????"

who said Marx loved Christianity?????????????



all I said was he copied their model, (and why not, the Christians weren't using it)

[JimL]

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."
Karl Marx

Yep, sounds like the words of somebody who loved Christianity.

I think Marx was talking about you and your ilk lilpix, the oppresser, the heartless, the soulless. Marx, though he wasn't religious himself, actually thought very highly of Jesus and early Christian philosophy. To bad you don't.

[jordanriver]

That's right, even though Venezuela went communist years ago, BLAME FREE MARKET because JR isn't capable of admitting that his beloved system is a total failure.

bringing you up to date, it was the MARKET PRICE of oil.

They were self sufficient in food till they got the oil bug and decided to trade and put all their land to oil production.

[Cow Poke]

We liberals don't, its just that you conservatives don't get the point being made. The money being redistributed is a result of it not being distributed fairly in the first place because of the greed of the powers that be.

One day, the teacher was unusually frustrated with the laziness of her students. She declared "why, I believe I have the laziest class in the whole school".

Then she held up a five dollar bill, and said, "I'll give $5 to the laziest student in the room". EVERYBODY raised there hand except little Jimmy.

The teacher, surprised, asked, "Jimmy, don't you want the $5?"

Jimmy mumbled, "just slip it in my pocket".



The problem, Jimmy, is that "fair" is a relative term. Fair to WHOM? Should the guy who works hard get the same reward as the guy who barely shows up for work?

Should somebody who risks their own wealth to build a business be forced to give up his hard earned money to the guy who just stays home and checks the mailbox for a check?

[Cow Poke]

bringing you up to date, it was the MARKET PRICE of oil.

They were self sufficient in food till they got the oil bug and decided to trade and put all their land to oil production.

Ah, those wise old socialists!