Socialism derail

[Cow Poke]

But he has that already available to him right now (unless he's not in the US), was my point.

I know - I guess he wants to ruin everybody else's life, too. I really don't get him.

I don't understand how he got so incredibly negative.

[jordanriver]

JR, what makes you think we aren't currently in a socialist system now? So far we have social security, social healthcare, social welfare, centrally planned economics through central banking that disallows select corporations and banks to ever fail i.e. the FED, a minimum wage, and a progressive income tax. How much different would your ideal socialist system be than it already is now?

we're living in a system (USA) where private owners start the businesses that most people work at.


we live in Capitalism, that means competition. winners and losers. You cannot have 300 million CEO's,, not even if all 300 million tried their absolute best to win

you're going to have a few winners and mostly losers.

Mostly losers depending on the winners for their income , their food and shelter.

And the winners, on a whim can get of your division, and source it out to temp agencies or private contractors, so you lose your income.

or the winners can just padlock the factory and move their production to Mexico.

How should the losers in this competition vote.

What is in their rational self interest?

[Littlejoe]

Because we identified an area where that was a need and developed a product we believe in to fill that need.

Had that for a number of years. Could have gone back to that not too long ago, but I believe in our business.

Because no-one else was making our product for where there is a particular need in the market. We have the skills to do it well, we have a product that is proving popular.

What I choose to do with my money is none of your business. I am investing my time and money, the whole point of an investment is that you are expecting there to be a particular reward to come from it (which may or may not be monetary)
But for the record we're wanting to build up our business to the point where it is having a positive impact in our little town (which has lost a number of jobs over the years with things moving to Auckland).
We want to be able to use our money to being able to further the Kingdom.
We want to be able to help those in need, not because we have to because some stupid marxist laws forces us to, but because we can.

Now THAT'S something I could get behind!!! Kudo's to you Raph!

[seanD]

JR, I'm seriously not on the bashing bandwagon. I'm really interested in your answer to post#70. What is your ideal socialist system and how much different could it be than the socialist system we're in now?

Okay, I just saw #77. Never mind.

[jordanriver]

Jordanriver you are not even advocating for socialism or "voters socialism" which in some form is what Germany and certain other Scandinavian countries have. You are advocating for Marxism. Its one thing to be an advocate for a different tax system which would reinforce the United States own social programs, while still allowing one to be rewarded for hard work (yes I believe this is possible but it would require some cooperation and no it would NOT allow for a burger flipper to make 15/hr that's insane) But a system where everyone makes the same amount simply doesn't work, at all. For one thing you have to have enough money, then you have to have people willing to pay for goods and services and if there is zero reward for hard work people get lazy after a while there is no where to go no money to be made no money for the government etc.... YOu haven't worked this out in your head at all.

if everybody was assigned according to their talent, what would you need money for?

[Cow Poke]

Jordanriver you are not even advocating for socialism or "voters socialism" which in some form is what Germany and certain other Scandinavian countries have. You are advocating for Marxism. Its one thing to be an advocate for a different tax system which would reinforce the United States own social programs, while still allowing one to be rewarded for hard work (yes I believe this is possible but it would require some cooperation and no it would NOT allow for a burger flipper to make 15/hr that's insane) But a system where everyone makes the same amount simply doesn't work, at all. For one thing you have to have enough money, then you have to have people willing to pay for goods and services and if there is zero reward for hard work people get lazy after a while there is no where to go no money to be made no money for the government etc.... YOu haven't worked this out in your head at all.

I'm thinking he never read the story The Little Red Hen. Or, perhaps he did, but didn't comprehend it.

[Cow Poke]

if everybody was assigned according to their talent, what would you need money for?

Who does the assigning? This is the idiocy of your advocacy. You assume there will always be benevolent dictators who are genuinely interested in taking care of the masses without succumbing to corruption.

[jordanriver]

Who does the assigning? This is the idiocy of your advocacy. You assume there will always be benevolent dictators who are genuinely interested in taking care of the masses without succumbing to corruption.

high school teachers when you finish your required k-12.

A dozen teachers know a kid's abilities, but the kid can appeal if he's been assigned to the factory, but thinks he's a healer and should spend another 4 to 7 years in medical school, being taught by instructors who were assigned the same way.

[Cow Poke]

high school teachers when you finish your required k-12.

You have GOT to be kidding. I graduate high school, and am "assigned" a role in life?

A dozen teachers know a kid's abilities, but the kid can appeal if he's been assigned to the factory, but thinks he's a healer and should spend another 4 to 7 years in medical school, being taught by instructors who were assigned the same way.

This is the kind of nonsense that makes me think you're just spewing forth ignorance, then laughing that somebody actually responds.

[jordanriver]

JR, I'm seriously not on the bashing bandwagon. I'm really interested in your answer to post#70. What is your ideal socialist system and how much different could it be than the socialist system we're in now?

Okay, I just saw #77. Never mind.

Washington Post

The Secret Shame of Middle-Class Americans The Atlantic


we're all just floating in shark filled waters. waiting our turn.

[jordanriver]

You have GOT to be kidding. I graduate high school, and am "assigned" a role in life?



This is the kind of nonsense that makes me think you're just spewing forth ignorance, then laughing that somebody actually responds.

I ask every teacher I see, if they can tell what a kid could work it, granted , this is a small sampling , but they all say they can.

I said you could appeal. And try what you want, and stay if you're good at something you weren't assigned to


....from each according to his ability , to each according to his need,


just like the Apostles.

[jordanriver]

I'm thinking he never read the story The Little Red Hen. Or, perhaps he did, but didn't comprehend it.

The moral of this story is that those who say no to contribution to a product do not deserve to enjoy the product: "if any would not work, neither should he eat,


THAT is Marxism.


its Apostle Paul too

[jordanriver]

if I want to eat, I better get off to work.

later

[seanD]

we're living in a system (USA) where private owners start the businesses that most people work at.


we live in Capitalism, that means competition. winners and losers. You cannot have 300 million CEO's,, not even if all 300 million tried their absolute best to win

you're going to have a few winners and mostly losers.

Mostly losers depending on the winners for their income , their food and shelter.

And the winners, on a whim can get of your division, and source it out to temp agencies or private contractors, so you lose your income.

or the winners can just padlock the factory and move their production to Mexico.

How should the losers in this competition vote.

What is in their rational self interest?

Government planned economics that disallows select corporations and banks to ever fail will indeed create more losers than winners and because the winners are never allowed to lose, the winners will monopolize; and because they're now so powerful and politically influential, they'll lobby to pass more regulations that will further squash their competition, as is happening now. Government planned economics is the very backbone of this dilemma, thus this isn't free market capitalism to me. It looks like your confusing the issue of what free market capitalism is and thus attacking it from the wrong perspective.

[Catholicity]

if everybody was assigned according to their talent, what would you need money for?

Maybe you should read the book Anthem. OR how about you consider that some people have multiple talents and don't want to do just one thing for there entire lives. You know, in fact I know several people like that, For example I know a pastor who had another job coaching High School Basketball, and I know a computer Engineer whose also a part time musician, and I know school teacher who does music for weddings, a dancer who's also a psychologist and another piano teacher whose a dancer. I know a music teacher who is also working on a masters in psychology, and I myself used to clean houses and work in a home health care setting. Look my point is why would you resign yourself one position if you like doing two things or even three? Its ridiculous. Part of the beauty in the U.S and even other Societies is the fact that we HAVE CHOICES!!!!