Cruz Versus Sanders

[Mountain Man]

Sanders. He's very liberal, but he will never succeed in implementing what he wants, but in his desire and ability to compromise he may succeed in moving some things in a positive direction. We must save the middle class from its current process of extinction or we are doomed.

Sanders has pretty much promised to destroy the middle class with tax increases.

[Mountain Man]

He's farther to the left than Obama, and you've seen how well Obama has been able to work with congress.

Yes, Congress has given Obama practically everything he wants. They don't even pretend to object to it any more.

[Catholicity]

Sanders biggest Selling point is consistency and honesty. However he doesn't play well with others. That said I don't think Cruz does either.

[Bill the Cat]

The next President stands the possibility to nominate 4 Supreme Court Justices. I can't see anything positive coming out of guaranteed far left justices Bernie would nominate.

[Carrikature]

The next President stands the possibility to nominate 4 Supreme Court Justices.

This is what people should really be paying attention to, imo. Scrap the campaign promises. Look at who they're likely to put into which positions. Look at how their choices will affect the course of legal precedent.

[klaus54]

soak the plutocrats.

Not just to pay for entitlement, but most important of all, to disarm them.

Money is used by the plutocrats as a weapon against the rest of us.

Big Insurance and Big Pharm instructs their property (politicians) to pretend they are enemies , but secretly make sure everybody is forced to buy insurance that they cannot afford to actually use because of the big deductibles, and make sure there was no public option to compete with.

Big Tort Law as well.

If see yet another law firm put out a mesotheloma ad, I gonna shoot the TV. (Jordan doesn't have to worry about TV's -- they're permanently installed in the walls of every room of his flat.)

[klaus54]

Like President Obama said, and this goes for Sanders as well, he can't get it done all by himself. Ultimately it is up to the people to wake up and smell the coffee. Sanders is calling for a political revolution, he is trying to wake people up to the facts of the corruption that has taken over politics. If we continue to put the bums, the crooks, the frauds into office due to apathy or ignorance then we will continue to get screwed by them.

...

The question is get what done?

[Yttrium]

The next President stands the possibility to nominate 4 Supreme Court Justices. I can't see anything positive coming out of guaranteed far left justices Bernie would nominate.

Yeah, between Cruz and Sanders, I consider that a tie.

Although, I note that my favorite justice (Kennedy) was appointed by a conservative Republican.

Yes, Congress has given Obama practically everything he wants. They don't even pretend to object to it any more.

facepalm_anime.jpg

[KingsGambit]

I would not relish the thought of either in charge of foreign policy. Ted "Carpet Bomber" Cruz isn't to be trusted with control of a 4th of July sparkler, let alone the nuclear button. And I'm not sure if Sanders would have any idea what he was doing on that front. Non-interventionism is my preferred default though.

[JimL]

Well, they certainly didn't wake up in the last election, where Republicans were elected into congress in even greater numbers.

Yes, even though many more votes were cast for democrats, republicans still managed to win more seats. Hmm, wonder how that happened.

It's easy to demonize the other side, but the Republicans have their good points, and the Democrats have their bad (as well as good) points. Politics have always contained a lot of corruption on both sides, and we're always trying to throw the bums out, and we never do; because we never seem to realize that the guys we vote for are the bums.

And that is exactly what those who control the system are counting on. What do you think the billions of dollars the plutocrats are pouring into campaigns are for. Its to convince the uninformed to vote against their own best interests and elect corrupt politicians that can be controlled by the self same plutocrats. Sanders is the only one on either side of the isle whose campaign isn't financed by corporations, superpacks or hidden money.
Donald Trump of course is a billionaire himself, so doesn't need their money, but he is also self admittedly corrupt.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that the Tea Party was an attempt at waking people up and starting a political revolution. Different people have different ideas of what people need to wake up to.

Nope, not really, The Occupy movement is grass roots, but it doesn't have the resources, the Tea Party is just another creation of the plutocrats, which is who they get all their financing from. They are anti government, which of course is exactly what the plutocrats are.

Still, a campaign to block corruption might sway me to vote for him.

Well, the guy has been at it for decades, fighting for the same things that he is now running for president on. You can vote for Sanders, and put congress and the plutocrats on notice, or you can just accept that the system will always be corrupt and that there is nothing you can do about it.



"Got to go. will reply to the below later."


He promises too much, without the means to pay for it. Entitlements are already dragging us down and eating up the budget. Mind you, I like the entitlements, but they need to be properly paid for. Sanders would add more burden rather than relieving it. Assuming he intends to crank up taxes, that isn't going to go over very well in our current society. See Tea Party above.

Realistically speaking, he isn't going to get those taxes, and so he isn't going to get his programs.

Universal health care would be great, if it didn't cost so much. For once I'd like to see a candidate coming up with ways to drive down the costs of health care FIRST. Otherwise nobody will be able to afford it, including the government.



From what I recall, Sanders has outright called himself a socialist from time to time.[/QUOTE]

[Bill the Cat]

Nope, not really, The Occupy movement is grass roots,

[One Bad Pig]

Cruz is a wolf in sheeps clothing, he's a corporate backed right winger masquerading as a man of the people.

[Adam]

Could I be swayed to pick one over the other? Can anyone give me some compelling arguments? Or should I consider a particular third party candidate in this situation?

Regardless of my Amens for posters here supporting Bernie Sanders, I'm right in the Middle-of-the-Road myself. I contributed to Jim Webb's campaign for the Democratic nomination and now support his Middle-of-the-Road campaign as an independent. I recommend him whole-heartedly without any reservations.

[JimL]

Sanders has pretty much promised to destroy the middle class with tax increases.

Specifics please?

[JimL]

He promises too much, without the means to pay for it. Entitlements are already dragging us down and eating up the budget. Mind you, I like the entitlements, but they need to be properly paid for. Sanders would add more burden rather than relieving it. Assuming he intends to crank up taxes, that isn't going to go over very well in our current society. See Tea Party above.

No, they have you believing that it cost to much because the fat cats and their political puppets want to continue screwing the rest of us over. Entitlements only cost to much because the fat cats don't want to pay their fair share, they want to continue hiding their trillions of dollars in tax havens, and abusing unintended loopholes in the tax code, while putting the cost burden of government on those of us with no financial power.

Realistically speaking, he isn't going to get those taxes, and so he isn't going to get his programs.

Realistically he isn't going to get those taxes unless he is able to wake people up to the facts and get them out to vote their best interests instead of being persuaded to vote against themselves. Realistically, it is up to the electorate.

Universal health care would be great, if it didn't cost so much. For once I'd like to see a candidate coming up with ways to drive down the costs of health care FIRST. Otherwise nobody will be able to afford it, including the government.

The cost of healthcare has already decreased under the ACA, not to mention that some 18 or so million more people are now insured. But that was a compromise bill with those who support privatization. The way to drive down costs is to see that everyone is insured, the healthy as well as the not so healthy, while cutting out the middle man, i.e. the insurance companies, whose only motive is profit.

From what I recall, Sanders has outright called himself a socialist from time to time.

Well, so what, we are all socialists to a certain extent whether we know it or not. Sanders is only being up front about it. Socialism like liberalism are ideas that demonized by the the fat cat propagandist on the right who want to keep you under their thumb. Thats just what they do! Its how they get you to vote againt your own best interests and instead vote for theirs.