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Progress in origin of life research - RNA world

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  • Progress in origin of life research - RNA world

    Layperson’s writeup:-

    Scientists solve the 'chicken and the egg' conundrum for life’s beginnings

    Paper:-

    Common origins of RNA, protein and lipid precursors in a cyanosulfidic protometabolism

  • #2
    interesting ...
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

    Comment


    • #3
      Neat!!!
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        interesting ...
        It's darn chemistry though, and I could never really get the hang of that subject, for some reason.

        Comment


        • #5
          RNA doesn't reproduce without a ribosome.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
            RNA doesn't reproduce without a ribosome.
            This occurs in complex cells, and does not apply in the primitive situation proposed.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Absolutely nothing in the lay or "scientific" writeup is new or relevant. The occasional production of organic building blocks in a chemical soup was never in theoretical doubt, what was in doubt was that those building blocks could ever come together to form self-replicating organisms that gave natural selection something to select:

              The perceived differences and incompatibilities between these subsystems have led to the widely held assumption that one or other subsystem must have preceded the others. Here we experimentally investigate the validity of this assumption by examining the assembly of various biomolecular building blocks from prebiotically plausible intermediates and one-carbon feedstock molecules. We show that precursors of ribonucleotides, amino acids and lipids can all be derived by the reductive homologation of ​hydrogen cyanide and some of its derivatives, and thus that all the cellular subsystems could have arisen simultaneously through common chemistry.
              The relevant details of the GROUNDBREAKING article that supposedly ROCKS MY ORIGIN-OF-LIFE WORLD is of course behind a paywall, but the Pretty Pictures accompanying the article indicates that is probably isn't going to address things like "concentration necessary for these reactions to succeed", "impurities that would make other chemical reactions more likely", "environmental states preventing hydrolysis and reversibility of reactions among the substrate components" and other things that chemists with an actual job would in fact be very interested in indeed. OOL press releases are, as they always have been since the Miller and Urey experiments, popular voodoo for unquestioning midwits who'll pay good money for whatever passes as science journalism.

              Comment


              • #8
                Edited by a Moderator


                Moderated By: Littlejoe

                Argument by weblink is not allowed.

                ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                Last edited by Littlejoe; 04-22-2015, 05:24 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Omniskeptical View Post
                  http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/

                  Source: http://www.cdc.gov/Features/PolioFacts/


                  Polio, or poliomyelitis, is an infectious viral disease that can strike at any age and affects a person's nervous system. In the late 1940s to the early 1950s, polio crippled an average of more than 35,000 people in the United States each year; it was one of the most feared diseases of the twentieth century.

                  Thanks to the polio vaccine, dedicated health care professionals, and parents who vaccinate their children on schedule, polio has been eliminated in this country for more than 30 years.

                  © Copyright Original Source

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                  • #10
                    Even more recent stuff:-

                    Layperson's writeup:-

                    New study hints at spontaneous appearance of primordial DNA

                    Paper:-

                    Abiotic ligation of DNA oligomers templated by their liquid crystal ordering
                    Last edited by rwatts; 04-13-2015, 03:56 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The idiotic assumptions write themselves in the first sentence:

                      "concentrated solutions of short DNA oligomers develop liquid crystal ordering as the result of a hierarchically structured supramolecular self-assembly."

                      Do you know why the smart money was on the RNA world hypothesis in the first place? It's because DNA IS TOO STABLE A MACROMOLECULE TO CATALYZE OR EVEN TEMPLATE ITS OWN REPRODUCTIVE CYCLE WITHOUT THE AID OF HELPER MOLECULES ADAPTED TO THE TASK.

                      Leaving aside the likelihood of the creation and concentration of the DNA Lincoln Logs they postulate here, there is no reproductive mechanism outside of MEGA-GLOMMING:

                      "In the presence of abiotic condensing agents, liquid crystal ordering markedly enhances ligation efficacy, thereby enhancing its own phase stability. The coupling between order-templated ligation and selectivity provided by supramolecular ordering enables an autocatalytic cycle favouring the growth of DNA chains, up to biologically relevant lengths, from few-base long oligomers."

                      What's the over-under on pulling those hypothetical DNA globs out to form something protein-wise?

                      "This finding suggests a novel scenario for the abiotic origin of nucleic acids."

                      It was never about finding possible abiotic orgins for organic compounds, it was about whether those compounds could seriously expect to arise in a form subject to mutation and selection, given what we know about the behavior of those molecules in solution. The images are already a minefield of assumptions:

                      ncomms7424-f1.jpg

                      Hmmm, yes, I'll assume that the primordial soup was able to magick me up a situation where each individual building block is a stable and symmetrical 12-base DNA pair with matching 3' ends, then I'm going to assume that it concentrated the agent that allows these sweet balanced building blocks to actually react together to form my biological superstructure, no need for God here, no siree.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                        The idiotic assumptions write themselves in the first sentence:

                        "concentrated solutions of short DNA oligomers develop liquid crystal ordering as the result of a hierarchically structured supramolecular self-assembly."

                        Do you know why the smart money was on the RNA world hypothesis in the first place? It's because DNA IS TOO STABLE A MACROMOLECULE TO CATALYZE OR EVEN TEMPLATE ITS OWN REPRODUCTIVE CYCLE WITHOUT THE AID OF HELPER MOLECULES ADAPTED TO THE TASK.

                        Leaving aside the likelihood of the creation and concentration of the DNA Lincoln Logs they postulate here, there is no reproductive mechanism outside of MEGA-GLOMMING:

                        "In the presence of abiotic condensing agents, liquid crystal ordering markedly enhances ligation efficacy, thereby enhancing its own phase stability. The coupling between order-templated ligation and selectivity provided by supramolecular ordering enables an autocatalytic cycle favouring the growth of DNA chains, up to biologically relevant lengths, from few-base long oligomers."

                        What's the over-under on pulling those hypothetical DNA globs out to form something protein-wise?

                        "This finding suggests a novel scenario for the abiotic origin of nucleic acids."

                        It was never about finding possible abiotic orgins for organic compounds, it was about whether those compounds could seriously expect to arise in a form subject to mutation and selection, given what we know about the behavior of those molecules in solution. The images are already a minefield of assumptions:

                        Hmmm, yes, I'll assume that the primordial soup was able to magick me up a situation where each individual building block is a stable and symmetrical 12-base DNA pair with matching 3' ends, then I'm going to assume that it concentrated the agent that allows these sweet balanced building blocks to actually react together to form my biological superstructure, no need for God here, no siree.
                        Awesome "scientific" rebuttal there Bro, especially the clever use of shouting giant capital letters. Why don't you write it up and submit it to Nature Chemistry? Just be sure to post their whole reply to you here.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                          Awesome "scientific" rebuttal there Bro, especially the clever use of shouting giant capital letters. Why don't you write it up and submit it to Nature Chemistry? Just be sure to post their whole reply to you here.
                          My thoughts entirely.

                          In Jorge's absence, it's nice to have another ranter around.

                          I was going to reply but I have another paper to mention in the same way I have the others. So it's worth posting and watching a few more blood vessels pop.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Anotheree:-

                            Abstract:-

                            Meteorite-catalyzed syntheses of nucleosides and of other prebiotic compounds from formamide under proton irradiation

                            Layperson's writeup:-

                            Life's building blocks created in space-like conditions

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              “But the catch is that the total mass of meteorite that’s coming in after the Moon-forming event is negligible,” he adds. “You can’t rely on the Late Heavy Bombardment to bring you much in terms of organics. Besides, that amount of carbon is negligible compared to what’s here on Earth already.”
                              Another terribly unlikely possibility.

                              Let us know when there's anything more.

                              Comment

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