Originally posted by Roy
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Evolutionists at it again ...
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by phank View PostYou are a hard man to communicate with. I don't think that purpose, in the sense of some universal master plan, can be addressed by science at all. Perhaps I should have phrased the epiphany as "purpose is not NEEDED." Not that it doesn't exist.
And by the way, what is it called when a person has no capacity to show respect for that which is not like Himself?
How do you know it wasn't the FSM? Again, neither one of these gods is required. They contribute nothing to any explanation or understanding.
I agree with you, for the most part. You are recommending discussions that fall outside the purview of science, to consume science classtime. And in practice, in the real world, high school science is regarded as a missionary calling by YECs, who "allow the discussion to go foward" within a very clearly presented context. I read an estimate that as many as 20% of high school science teachers are creationists. So your abstract free-range discussioin is great in principle, and undermined in practice.
The second is this: To squash the normal curiosity of students in the classroom over topics slightly tangential to a topic is to squash learning in general. Most topics have ancillary connections to other topics. Exploring the connections is critical to learning. Science bumps up against religion all the time. Taking a little time every now and then to explore some of those intersections in an objective, unbiased fashion is GOOD for the students. And most of the heavy handed approaches to dealing with YEC evangelism in classrooms kill this kind of healthy discussion of the topic.
Golly, I wrote a post suggesting using the design process to illustrate and lead to a discussion of RM+NS, and to try to get past the teleology that is the enemy of science. And YOU see only intolerance, which you use to immediately smear me with Jorge-ism. How very TOLERANT of you!
As for religion, it seems you are as tolerant of the FSM as I am of YOUR imaginary god. So why don't you just tuck that double standard back where it belongs and stick with the natural science?
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 03-11-2015, 11:25 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostYet MORE embarrassment for the Evolutionists ... (folks, it's a never-ending saga)
This time from Nature .....................
"A slower molecular clock worked well to harmonize genetic and archaeological estimates for dates of key events in human evolution, such as migrations out of Africa and around the rest of the world. But calculations using the slow clock gave nonsensical results when extended further back in timethat the most recent common ancestor of apes and monkeys could have encountered dinosaurs."
"nonsensical results ..." ... "co-existing with dinosaurs" Bwahahahaha
Imagine that! I'll bet they had to change their underwear on those two.
"Reluctant to abandon the older numbers completely, ..."
"Reluctant to abandon ..." Please, say it isn't so!
"
http://www.nature.com/news/dna-mutat...to-set-1.17079
"... embarrassingly bad and uncertain" -- yeah, and then there are 'geniuses' that want
to stake their eternal destiny on promoting this "embarrassingly bad and uncertain" myth.
No wonder some people believe that they came from monkeys.
JorgeTo say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostNothing like using a bigger adjective to describe a smaller phenomenon.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by jordanriver View Postgood citation other J.
I like their insert, quoting the article for emphasis: "“The fact that the clock is so uncertain is very problematic for us.”
if a Bible apologist took that quote by itself, it would be called "quote mining" and 'out of context', but Nature noted the significance of that point.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNo, it's a pretty screwed up post JR. The potential accuracy of a genetic clock has little to do with the strength of evolutionary theory.
Jim
but a slowed down molecular clock would push back the divergence wouldn't it.
maybe the Bible is wrong and apes and monkeys split before the world was createdTo say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThe use of the term Universal to differentiate from Global as regards the flood has a legitimate basis in the history of the discussion. You may as well be mocking the term 'Big Bang' or "Black Hole" in an equally ignorant fashion. Reminds me of how I have to watch how I pronounce "Uranus" when I'm doing a star party for 7th and 8th graders.
Jim
On what grounds do you presume I'm unaware of the basis? I'm quite aware of it. In truth, that discussion is one of many attempts to maintain a semblance of legitimacy for certain stories whose underpinnings have been all but removed by scientific knowledge. It meets with some measure of success only in that it allows the scientifically disinterested/illiterate to push their claims into what they believe is unassailable territory. You can use whatever term you want to describe it, the reality hasn't changed.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by jordanriver View Postthe citations are good stuff.
but a slowed down molecular clock would push back the divergence wouldn't it.
maybe the Bible is wrong and apes and monkeys split before the world was created
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
On what grounds do you presume I'm unaware of the basis? I'm quite aware of it. In truth, that discussion is one of many attempts to maintain a semblance of legitimacy for certain stories whose underpinnings have been all but removed by scientific knowledge. It meets with some measure of success only in that it allows the scientifically disinterested/illiterate to push their claims into what they believe is unassailable territory. You can use whatever term you want to describe it, the reality hasn't changed.
YEC side : "Atheists MUST have billions of years" (i.e. as if the evidence has nothing to do with it, as if they are forcing the data)
Non-theist : - what you said -
Do any of you that simply have to paint the other guys as villains have a clue how to try to understand there a GOOD people on both sides of these debates, with GOOD motives and HONEST character?
JImMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAlways the attempt to paint the opponent as evil/sneaky whatever.
YEC side : "Atheists MUST have billions of years" (i.e. as if the evidence has nothing to do with it, as if they are forcing the data)
Non-theist : - what you said -
Do any of you that simply have to paint the other guys as villains have a clue how to try to understand there a GOOD people on both sides of these debates, with GOOD motives and HONEST character?
JIm
Regardless, "always the attempt" is about as far from the truth as you can get when talking to/about me. I'm the one whose mantra is "never mistake ignorance for malice". I'm the one who is often coming in against both sides in part because I often see the merit in both sides. Are you just to the point that you're inadvertently lumping all of us non-believers into one category? If so, you might seriously consider taking a break. You've missed the mark on this one.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostJim, I think you should stop and check who you're talking to. I don't think the "other guys" are villains or anything like that. I've not said word one about them being evil/sneaky. I just don't think they care. It's a 'good enough' answer, and that's all they need. There's nothing dishonest about that, but it's not anything anyone should take seriously, either.
Regardless, "always the attempt" is about as far from the truth as you can get when talking to/about me. I'm the one whose mantra is "never mistake ignorance for malice". I'm the one who is often coming in against both sides in part because I often see the merit in both sides. Are you just to the point that you're inadvertently lumping all of us non-believers into one category? If so, you might seriously consider taking a break. You've missed the mark on this one.
Need a break? Probablu not. But your protest reminds me to be more careful.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI was responding to the character of the area quoted - and I was thinking it seemed out of character for you. And I probably am tired of that kind of thing being a large part of the character of the posts from Phank and Jorge, but also boxing and perhaps some others.
Need a break? Probablu not. But your protest reminds me to be more careful.
Jim
You are so freekin sensitive to what you see as insults to your imaginary god that you consistently toss the baby and attack the bathwater.
Clue: This is the natural science form. Gods play no role in natural science. If you wish to discuss the science, ignore the gods for once and discuss the science.
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Originally posted by rwatts View Post
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Originally posted by phank View PostAh, it's Mr. Tolerance again. Just tired of people whose views differ from yours.
You are so freekin sensitive to what you see as insults to your imaginary god that you consistently toss the baby and attack the bathwater.
Clue: This is the natural science form. Gods play no role in natural science. If you wish to discuss the science, ignore the gods for once and discuss the science.
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