Originally posted by Seeker
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Specified complexity
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Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-15-2019, 12:00 PM.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo. Many enzymes are proteins. But given Wieland's confusion above, I can't guarantee some YECs think they mean different things.
''To refer to meaning and message involves the existence of a code, and enzymes (all of them proteins)
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostThen Wieland is even more confused. He said:
''To refer to meaning and message involves the existence of a code, and enzymes (all of them proteins)
Wieland is also wrong about DNA having specified complexity, for the reason given on the first page of this thread: DNA sequences aren't specified anywhere.Last edited by Roy; 04-16-2019, 04:39 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostSorry if I am being dense, but I still don't get that. You mean the creationists haven't sequenced it?
But what I mean is that for something to be specified you need to do more than just transcribe a sequence of DNA, you need* something else that has the same sequence to compare it to.
"To be or not to be, that is the question - whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" can be considered specified because there is an already existing work that it can be matched to (assuming I've remembered it correctly).
"ejrtg mfdbdffsnmnsd sb gdsn fsnfdn s bd bfds b s gfn fsn. Dii sg dsdgfs bdgb db ds b dsb sb fgsgfs nbfdsgb dj ldskj kl fds, vv" isn't specified because there is no pre-existing sequence that it matches.
Sequenced DNA isn't specified because there is no pre-existing specification that it matches. The result of DNA sequencing can be used as a specification for something else, such as gene therapy or artificial DNA construction, but that doesn't mean the DNA sequence is specified, it means that whatever is based on it is specified. The existence of similar DNA sequences in different people/creatures isn't specification either since it isn't independent if all the copies were inherited from the same ancestor.
If we had some data that matched sequenced DNA, and which existed before or independently of the DNA being sequenced, then it might be specified. But we don't, so it isn't.
*and this is the Creationist/IDers claim tooJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostRoy, you say you have met Phillip Bell in person?
He used to work for AiG UK, and he gave a couple of presentations near where I lived. The first was standard YEC rubbish, complete with misrepresented data and out-of-context quotes. The second was about UFOs being flown by demons.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostYes, I think it was him.
He used to work for AiG UK, and he gave a couple of presentations near where I lived. The first was standard YEC rubbish, complete with misrepresented data and out-of-context quotes. The second was about UFOs being flown by demons.
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostAre there THREE different concepts of 'information'? One by Spetner, one by Gitt and another by Dembski? In what they differ from one another?
Dembski defines information as follows:
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