Optimized amino acids

[TheLurch]

Well, there are more than one, though I need to be shown how amino acid sets are currently evolving.

Translation: Please provide me more information that i will proceed to pretend doesn't exist, just as i've ignored other relevant information presented in this discussion.

I'm done playing the game of "do my work for me". Do some yourself.

[lee_merrill]

Still have not answered the question: Why should the sets of amino acids continuously change?

Well, I don't believe they do, this would be others' argument, if anyone wants to make it.

Blessings,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

Translation: Please provide me more information that i will proceed to pretend doesn't exist, just as i've ignored other relevant information presented in this discussion.

I'm done playing the game of "do my work for me". Do some yourself.

You are the one making the argument, so it's up to you to provide evidence!

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

Well, I don't believe they do, this would be others' argument, if anyone wants to make it.

Blessings,
Lee

No one here is making the argument, so give up the ghost. I simply provided the peer reviewed article that describes evolution in proteins from 20 to 22 amino acids.

There are no 'others' argument.

Again . . .

Well, there are more than one, though I need to be shown how amino acid sets are currently evolving.

What is your point in demanding evidence of continued evolution of amino acids today?

Still waiting . . .

[TheLurch]

You are the one making the argument, so it's up to you to provide evidence!

No, i'm asking you to support your own argument. Or at least pretend that you've made some effort to do so.

[Roy]

You are the one making the argument, so it's up to you to provide evidence!

You started this thread, Dory, and you made the claims about amino acid set evolution:

But no one I know of is proposing that the amino acid set has been changing substantially! That would imply changes in the codon set, along with a host of other changes to produce different amino acids.
...
I am not a biologist, but something in the chain of codons -> mRNA -> tRNA would need changing. The new amino acid would need to be useful right away in proteins, as a substitution for the previous amino acid. This I deem unlikely.

You are the one making the argument, so it would be up to you to provide evidence - but you haven't provided anything except ignorance and your unwillingness to remedy it.

Since your wilful ignorance is neither argument nor evidence, we're done. Your claim is rejected.

[shunyadragon]

Well, I don't believe they do, this would be others' argument, if anyone wants to make it.

Blessings,
Lee

You posted . . .

But no one I know of is proposing that the amino acid set has been changing substantially! That would imply changes in the codon set, along with a host of other changes to produce different amino acids.
...
I am not a biologist, but something in the chain of codons -> mRNA -> tRNA would need changing. The new amino acid would need to be useful right away in proteins, as a substitution for the previous amino acid. This I deem unlikely.

You need to clarify your argument instead of arguing for the hypothetical of which you 'deem unlikely' from the layman's perspective and the religious agenda of Intelligent Design.

We have given references that explained how the early microorganisms evolved to the early set of 20 amino acids, which was necessary for energy utilization from a sulfur- iron world to oxygen-phosphorus for nutrient biosynthesis. This transition in early life is from amino acid by chemical synthesis to metabolic pathways for amino acid biosynthesis. The result was the 20 amino acid proteins were the result of the evolution of the best suited combination for the function of independent .metabolic pathways for amino acid biosynthesis. The other possible combinations did not survive at this point, because they were not suited for independent biosynthesis.As cited the evolution did not stop at the 20, but adapted in cases needed to 22 amino acids. See the following source:

Source: https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/an-evolutionary-perspective-on-amino-acids-14568445

An Evolutionary Perspective on Amino Acids

© Copyright Original Source

[lee_merrill]

Source: https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/an-evolutionary-perspective-on-amino-acids-14568445

An Evolutionary Perspective on Amino Acids

© Copyright Original Source

These are fundamental questions, I don't think this is what we would expect if amino acid evolution was explained.

Source: Nature article

Prevailing evidence suggests that metabolic pathways themselves seem to be evolving following the patchwork assembly model, which proposes that pathways originated through the recruitment of generalist enzymes that could react with a wide range of substrates.

© Copyright Original Source

I think they misspoke, "seem to have evolved" would be better. But they have not told us what these generalist enzymes would be.

Blessings,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

What is your point in demanding evidence of continued evolution of amino acids today?

Evolution stays in motion, and if amino acids were evolving today, it would be more likely that they also evolved in the past.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

These are fundamental questions, I don't think this is what we would expect if amino acid evolution was explained.

I am not sure what your expectation is "if" amino acid evolution was explained. I have cited a number of articles that explained aspects of the evolution of the earliest life forms that lead to the basic twenty.

Source: Nature article

Prevailing evidence suggests that metabolic pathways themselves seem to be evolving following the patchwork assembly model, which proposes that pathways originated through the recruitment of generalist enzymes that could react with a wide range of substrates.

© Copyright Original Source

I think they misspoke, "seem to have evolved" would be better. But they have not told us what these generalist enzymes would be.

Your picking frog hairs instead of trying to understand a basic article that summarizes the nature of evolution of the first pre-organic to the organic microorganisms that resulted in the basic twenty amino acids that resulted in the LUCA.

This article was for your information. The more detailed scientific referenced deal with the specifics.

You are still expecting a detailed complete and specific explanation or else 'Intelligent Design.'

Science does not work like this. Unless you can come up with a falsifiable hypothesis that justifies your claims your proposing an 'Air ball.'

Still have not answered the question: We do you demand evidence that amino acids must be still evolving? This does not reflect the claims of your mythical 'others.' There are no 'others.'

[shunyadragon]

Evolution stays in motion, and if amino acids were evolving today, it would be more likely that they also evolved in the past.

Blessings,
Lee

This does not represent any claims by 'others' which do not make such claims that reflect your demands.

NO, evolution does not necessarily stay in motion unless there is an environmental reason for change in evolution. life evolves in response to need to adapt to survive. Please cite a scientific source that describes the foolishness statement you made above. The basic evolution of microorganism was to adapt to an independent metabolism resulted in the basic 20 to meet that need.

The evolution of the basic 20 amino acids meets the basic needs of the independent metabolism of all future life in the oxygen-iron-phosphorous environment. Once the basic needs of independent metabolism have been met the only changes in the evolving microorganisms are added amino acids such as the 22 found as needed in some microorganisms, and continued evolution using the basic 20.

[Roy]

These are fundamental questions, I don't think this is what we would expect if amino acid evolution was explained.

You have admitted you know very little about this subject. What you think is irrelevant.

Source: Nature article

Prevailing evidence suggests that metabolic pathways themselves seem to be evolving following the patchwork assembly model, which proposes that pathways originated through the recruitment of generalist enzymes that could react with a wide range of substrates.

© Copyright Original Source

I think they misspoke, "seem to have evolved" would be better.

Again, what you think is irrelevant. They say metabolic pathways seem to be evolving via a named model, and your opinion is of no consequence.

[Roy]

Evolution stays in motion, and if amino acids were evolving today, it would be more likely that they also evolved in the past.

Then you should be researching whether amino acids are evolving today, instead of demanding answers from others.

[lee_merrill]

NO, evolution does not necessarily stay in motion unless there is an environmental reason for change in evolution.

Evolution does stay in motion, mutations continue to happen, and natural selection operates on them.

But I think we're about done here, after 23 pages! So I'll let you all have the last word.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

Evolution does stay in motion, mutations continue to happen, and natural selection operates on them.

But I think we're about done here, after 23 pages! So I'll let you all have the last word.

Blessings,
Lee

When you make foolish claims, you need to back it up with scientific references. There are many species that remain unchanged for millions of years.