RIP Stephen

[rogue06]

It's actually several conspiracy nut job theories. But it is sad you buy unto them. Unfortunately, it sorta proves you are not fit to evaluate the legitimacy of any theory. You are eaten up with paranoia driven it appears by a certain 'end times' escatology.

Jim

You have to wonder if (almost) 50 years ago Jorge was telling everyone who would listen that the Apollo moon landing was nothing but a hoax.

[KingsGambit]

You have to wonder if (almost) 50 years ago Jorge was telling everyone who would listen that the Apollo moon landing was nothing but a hoax.

It is on AiG's list of arguments not to use so presumably the moon landing is safe... right?

[rogue06]

It is on AiG's list of arguments not to use so presumably the moon landing is safe... right?

Jorge has pushed a number of things that the various YEC organizations urge their followers not to claim. One that immediately comes to mind is the whole bit about the phrase "science falsely so called" referring to evolution

[TheLurch]

It is on AiG's list of arguments not to use so presumably the moon landing is safe... right?

There have been lots of studies that show these things are the product of an underlying personality tendency (technically termed "conspiratorial ideation"). As a result, someone who believes one conspiracy tends to believe a lot of them. I wouldn't take the moon landings off the table yet.

[rogue06]

There have been lots of studies that show these things are the product of an underlying personality tendency (technically termed "conspiratorial ideation"). As a result, someone who believes one conspiracy tends to believe a lot of them. I wouldn't take the moon landings off the table yet.

I've found that such folks tend to want to believe that they're privy to some very important "secret" information that the rest of the public is unaware of and this then makes them elite in some way.


By the way, did y'all know that there really isn't a letter "Q"? It's all a fraud hoisted on the gullible public by the Trilateral Commission.

[oxmixmudd]

There have been lots of studies that show these things are the product of an underlying personality tendency (technically termed "conspiratorial ideation"). As a result, someone who believes one conspiracy tends to believe a lot of them. I wouldn't take the moon landings off the table yet.

That has been my experience too. The friends or acquaintances I have that lean towards believing any conspiracy theory tend to buy into a bunch of them.

Jim

[carpedm9587]

That has been my experience too. The friends or acquaintances I have that lean towards believing any conspiracy theory tend to buy into a bunch of them.

Jim

My experience as well.

[Jorge]

My position is that none of it matters to my faith. I don't know if the Earth was created in a literal 7 day week and just looks old, or it really is 4 billion years old (I tend to believe the latter) - I don't know if God used evolution or not. None of it matters to me. Just like the various end times theories don't matter to me. Each has equally valid reasoning. What matters to me is what happened in between. That Jesus came down and died for our sins and we can be forgiven and have eternal life with God. None of that is affected by how the Earth and we were created, or how it will all end.

Shallow thinking.

You fail to see the connections between things. Since "all that matters" is that "I believe/accept/confess that Jesus came and died for my sins and by this I have eternal life with God" then let me go out tonight, get drunk, do drugs, fornicate 'till I drop, steal a man's wages if I get the chance ... etc. Hey, I've done "all that matters", right?

NOT!!! There is a connection in life between areas A, B, C and D with areas Q, R, S and T. To wit, can a person say "I believe in God" while at the same time in essence call God a liar by not accepting what God says about this or that?

Believe whatever you wish, I say NO WAY to that question.

You say that "None of that matters to me."
I say, it SHOULD matter.
That it "doesn't matter" reveals a spiritual flaw or lacking.
You can't have these things YOUR way, Sparko. None of us can.
Thinking otherwise is where you are wrong (IMHO).

Jorge

[Jorge]

Absolutely agree 100%. Our salvation does not hinge on whether or not we accept or reject the evidence for evolution any more than it does on how we think the earth is shaped or whether the earth orbits the sun or vice versa. Unfortunately there are some in the YEC leadership who disagree, with some like Ken Ham wanting to make Christianity dependent upon how we read the opening chapters of Genesis rather than on Christ and his finished work on the cross (spurning what He said in Matthew 7:24-27).

Like Sparko, shallow thinking. See my previous post for more.

jorge

[oxmixmudd]

Shallow thinking.

You fail to see the connections between things. Since "all that matters" is that "I believe/accept/confess that Jesus came and died for my sins and by this I have eternal life with God" then let me go out tonight, get drunk, do drugs, fornicate 'till I drop, steal a man's wages if I get the chance ... etc. Hey, I've done "all that matters", right?

NOT!!! There is a connection in life between areas A, B, C and D with areas Q, R, S and T. To wit, can a person say "I believe in God" while at the same time in essence call God a liar by not accepting what God says about this or that?

Believe whatever you wish, I say NO WAY to that question.

You say that "None of that matters to me."
I say, it SHOULD matter.
That it "doesn't matter" reveals a spiritual flaw or lacking.
You can't have these things YOUR way, Sparko. None of us can.
Thinking otherwise is where you are wrong (IMHO).

Jorge

It's not all or nothing jorge. Belief in christ and trust in his grace is not license to sin. Nevertheless, how old the earth is has no bearing on that belief in grace nor is it necessarily of any consequence relative to how one lives out a Christian life.

Jim

[carpedm9587]

Shallow thinking.

You fail to see the connections between things. Since "all that matters" is that "I believe/accept/confess that Jesus came and died for my sins and by this I have eternal life with God" then let me go out tonight, get drunk, do drugs, fornicate 'till I drop, steal a man's wages if I get the chance ... etc. Hey, I've done "all that matters", right?

NOT!!! There is a connection in life between areas A, B, C and D with areas Q, R, S and T. To wit, can a person say "I believe in God" while at the same time in essence call God a liar by not accepting what God says about this or that?

Believe whatever you wish, I say NO WAY to that question.

You say that "None of that matters to me."
I say, it SHOULD matter.
That it "doesn't matter" reveals a spiritual flaw or lacking.
You can't have these things YOUR way, Sparko. None of us can.
Thinking otherwise is where you are wrong (IMHO).

Jorge

OK, Jorge. None of this fits into my beliefs, so my perspective may be simply dismissed, but I did not hear Sparko say ANY of that. I cannot imagine that he is a man who thinks he just has to "confess Jesus as his lord and savior" and then go out and indulge every pleasure of the senses and "he's good." He merely noted that some things are critical to "salvation," and some are not. What he believes about when the earth was created is not. What he believes might happen at the ends times is not. I may be putting words into the man's mouth (and if I am, Sparko, then please correct me), but I suspect he would say that his confession of Jesus as his lord and savior must be an honest one, which means living a life in line with the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus is known to have said "love one another" and "take up your cross and follow me." I'm reasonably sure he didn't say, "believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old or be damned!"

Don't get me wrong - Sparko is a right wing nut with delusions of correctness...but he's also an honest and heartfelt man

[carpedm9587]

Like Sparko, shallow thinking. See my previous post for more.

jorge

Same for Rogue...except he's even MORE annoying than Sparko!

[carpedm9587]

It's not all or nothing jorge. Belief in christ and trust in his grace is not license to sin. Nevertheless, how old the earth is has no bearing on that belief in grace nor is it necessarily of any consequence relative to how one lives out a Christian life.

Jim

I think I said that!

[carpedm9587]

Before anyone gets too bent out of shape...I'm in a playful mood. So my last three posts were not meant to disparage Sparko, Rogue, or Jim!





(well...maybe a little...)

[Jorge]

"Drink the Koolaid" is a term that dates back to the Jonestown Massacre and refers to someone who accepts a position without thought, consideration, or investigation. Since I actually did investigate, consider, and give thought to these issues, it does not apply. I also looked into the "conspiracy theories." I found them groundless. Ergo, going around this again has no interest for me. It would be akin to someone wanting to re-examine whether or not Trump was elected in 2016. The votes have been counted and recounted - he was elected - move on.

The Trump election analogy is a Straw Man --- you do know that, right?

I assumed you were a biblical creationist. I was more interested in your position on the age of the earth.

As a Biblical Creationist and researcher in these matters there is but one possible conclusion: the Earth is under 10K years "old", probably closer to 6K years.

Yes, I am ignorant on many things - just not these.

Aren't we all?

I am confident in the "rightness" of my position on these things, and simply not willing to spend any more time re-examining this when there are so many other, better, ways for me to be spending my time. We only have so many days, and I'd rather not waste them on things I consider specious at best. I'm sure you have hundreds or even thousands of articles, books, and so forth. I've probably read a fair number of them (though I am sure not all). I do not censor opposing views, as you suggest. However, as with most of us, when I've examined something to a point where I feel I can form a reasonable conclusion, I move on. If someone tells me they can prove that 1 + 1 = 57, I'm going to nod politely and say, "no thanks - I don't need to go there. They can accuse me of being close-minded all they wish - it's not going to change that..

Yeah, I get it.

"1 + 1 = 57"??? WOW!! You're almost as good at creating Straw Men as rogue06 is (but he still has you beat by a lot - he's the resident Master Straw Man Creator here at TWeb).

So for JFK, 911, moon landing, evolution, the age of the earth, geocentrism, and flat earth theory - I usually say, no thanks. Climate denial is pretty close to that mark.

Michel

JFK -- Official narrative is a LIE to appease the ignorant masses while concealing the crime.
9/11 -- Official narrative is a LIE to appease the ignorant masses while concealing the crimes.
moon landing -- 'probably' happened but there are many serious unanswered questions.
age of the earth -- Official narrative contradicts the Word of God; ergo, giga/mega-years cannot be true AND this is supported by hundreds of separate lines of tangible evidence and sound logic.
flat earth -- most versions of this are nonsense; some versions have things to consider.
geocentrism -- most versions of this are nonsense; some versions have things to consider.
Climate change -- that "climate changes" is an observable fact. That the changes are "bad" and due to man's activities is an agenda-driven LIE meant to expand economic and political control of the masses by a ruling class that consider themselves above all laws.

Become better educated, Michel.

Jorge