Cork it.

[Truthseeker]

Supposed to be long before the Age of Dinosaurs. What a bunch of poor readers you are. The end of world civilization.

[Sparko]

Supposed to be long before the Age of Dinosaurs. What a bunch of poor readers you are. The end of world civilization.

http://news.discovery.com/animals/di...rts-120507.htm

read it.

dinosaur farts. I guess the dino gas wasn't enough so they had to come up with a way to get more methane in the air, thus the story about microbial blooms in the seas.

[DesertBerean]

They forgot to check the calender . ..it's not April Fool's.

[Truthseeker]

http://news.discovery.com/animals/di...rts-120507.htm

read it.

dinosaur farts. I guess the dino gas wasn't enough so they had to come up with a way to get more methane in the air, thus the story about microbial blooms in the seas.

Who said the dino-fart estimate given in your link was not enough?

[rwatts]

oh please! Now the AGW fanatics are claiming the dinosaurs killed themselves off with farts? More idiotic scare tactics to promote AGW.

There is not much I can do with that comment but ...

[rwatts]

Interesting hypothesis:-

Archaeageddon: how gas-belching microbes could have caused mass extinction



Probably best not discuss lest we release too much gas.

Listen you lot.

Think of the gas.

I've decided to go off beans.

[Zymologist]

Listen you lot.

Think of the gas.

I've decided to go off beans.

For which we are all grateful, I'm sure.

[Teallaura]

Now if we can just get him to give up broccoli, too...

[sylas]

Just saw this thread cited in another discussion. This thread I had previously been ignoring as basically a bit of light amusement as a kind of comedy riff on some recent research with no particular concern for real relevance... but it might be that some could mistake the jokes as being relevant to the point raised in the OP. They aren't.

The OP of this thread is actually referring to a recently published hypothesis about the great mass extinction at the end of the Permian. This extinction has long been a puzzle, with various competing ideas for what was the main cause. Previously, the two big contenders have been a large asteroid or comet impact; or else a massive series of volcanic events (the Deccan Traps).

Now we have a new proposal. There is good evidence that about the time of the extinction a certain species of bacteria developed a capacity to metabolize acetate into methane. Massive blooms of this bacteria could have released enough methane to precipitate an extinction event, by changes in the atmosphere and in ocean chemistry.

Note that this event was over 250 million years ago -- well before the dinosaurs ever existed; and that the bacteria concerned were free living bacteria in large blooms; not microbes involved in digestive gases of any other larger animal. No farts, and no dinosaurs, are involved.

Sorry to be boring; carry on. -- Sylas

[Truthseeker]

Were not the Deccan Traps possibly involved because they brought up large amounts of nickel? The bacteria in question could have used that as a catalyst. Please note that I do not accept that hypothesis without any skepticism.

[sylas]

Were not the Deccan Traps possibly involved because they brought up large amounts of nickel? The bacteria in question could have used that as a catalyst. Please note that I do not accept that hypothesis without any skepticism.

You are correct; though there is a big error due to me. Thanks for the chance to correct it!

It wasn't the "Deccan Traps"; I used that term, which was wrong. The Deccan Traps are large lava flows that are dated to the time of the extinction of the dinosaurs, which (as I noted) is not involved here.

I should have said the "Siberian Traps". That is another much older and larger lava flow.

You are correct. The vulcanism which produced the Siberian Traps released large amounts of nickel, which is cited in the article from the OP as a factor for allowing large blooms of the microbes. It's highly plausible that the end Permian extinction involved a combination of factors.

I'm with you in the skepticism. There's nothing I can see especially wrong or dubious in the hypothesis, but it is only a hypothesis. A lot of reporting seems to be taking this as "scientists have proved that..." This is wrong. It's one research paper, which is really interesting and presents a credible idea with a couple of tantalizing lines of evidence. But it's a long way from well established. And skepticism is the proper approach to new scientific ideas. Unfortunately the term "skepticism" has been co-opted in a number of contexts to distort the proper sense of the term; your comment above is a good example of what skepticism really means.

Cheers -- sylas

[Teallaura]

You are correct; though there is a big error due to me. Thanks for the chance to correct it!

It wasn't the "Deccan Traps"; I used that term, which was wrong. The Deccan Traps are large lava flows that are dated to the time of the extinction of the dinosaurs, which (as I noted) is not involved here.

I should have said the "Siberian Traps". That is another much older and larger lava flow.

You are correct. The vulcanism which produced the Siberian Traps released large amounts of nickel, which is cited in the article form the OP as a factor for allowing large blooms of the microbes. It's highly plausible that the end Permian extinction involved a combination of factors.

I'm with you in the skepticism. There's nothing I can see especially wrong or dubious in the hypothesis, but it is only a hypothesis. A lot of reporting seems to be taking this as "scientists have proved that..." This is wrong. It's one research paper, which is really interesting and presents a credible idea with a couple of tantalizing lines of evidence. But it's a long way from well established. And skepticism is the proper approach to new scientific ideas. Unfortunately the term "skepticism" has been co-opted in a number of contexts to distort the proper sense of the term; your comment above is a good example of what skepticism really means.

Cheers -- sylas

<serious hat> So, you're talking about microbes similar to what are found around deep sea vents? (Was paying attention - but can't resist a good straight line. )

[sylas]

<serious hat> So, you're talking about microbes similar to what are found around deep sea vents? (Was paying attention - but can't resist a good straight line. )

Actually... yes we are!

The bacteria in question are Methanosarcina, and these are found in many locations... including deep sea vents. This genus is also found in the gut of various animals; also sewage works, soils, marine and freshwater sediments, oil wells, and more.

The actual research paper: Methanogenic burst in the end-Permian carbon cycle (Rothman et al 2014, doi:10.1073/pnas.1318106111) doesn't finger a particular environment beyond the ocean. I don't think that the blooms proposed in the paper can have been limited to deep sea vents, and indeed this genus had already been known and studied before they were also found in deep sea vents.

But it is entirely correct to note that Methanosarcina is found in deep sea vents, and is an important part of the ecology in that environment.

Cheers -- sylas

[Teallaura]

Cool, thanks!

[shunyadragon]

Interesting hypothesis:-

Archaeageddon: how gas-belching microbes could have caused mass extinction


Probably best not discuss lest we release too much gas.

I personally vote for the Siberian Volcanic traps, possibly associated with a large meteor impact and the ignition of large amounts of coal and lignite and release the gas.

Likewise the Deccan Traps may be associated with Meteor impact that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs.