What do those Nobel people know anyway?

[seer]

The physicist's "nothing" is not the same as the philosopher's "nothing".

Well actually Vilenkin's nothing is nothing, except the laws of physics.

. That is as close to nothing as you can get, but what is still required here is the laws of physics. So the laws of physics should still be there, and they are definitely not nothing.

http://now.tufts.edu/articles/beginning-was-beginning

[One Bad Pig]

Well actually Vilenkin's nothing is nothing, except the laws of physics.

I have no idea why, but I keep looking at your avatar and thinking "shunyadragon".

[seer]

I have no idea why, but I keep looking at your avatar and thinking "shunyadragon".

Oh crap, that was a famous painting by James Whistler - now I have to change it!

[Sparko]

Oh crap, that was a famous painting by James Whistler - now I have to change it!

Now you look like a girl!

[seer]

Now you look like a girl!

That is what a bigoted cis male would say!

[Sparko]

That is what a bigoted cis male would say!

aw shucks. It was nothing.

(there, back on topic)

[rogue06]

That is what a bigoted cis male would say!

cissy

[seer]

cissy

A gal just can't catch a break!

[TheLurch]

Not to derail the discussion of Seer's gender, but the World Science Festival did a program on nothing a few years back, and has posted the entire thing online for all to enjoy.

[Jedidiah]

And i think many of the physicists he's quoting would agree with you. Nothing as we've traditionally defined it has been the vacuum of empty space. We now know that that has fields and virtual particles in it. So we can redefine nothing to mean space without those if we wanted (not that i'm sure we could define what that is). But ultimately it's a matter of semantics at this point - as long as you understand what the underlying physics tells us, nobody really cares what you decide to call it.

Even empty space without those fields and virtual particles is not nothing. Nothing is no thing at all.

[seer]

Not to derail the discussion of Seer's gender, but the World Science Festival did a program on nothing a few years back, and has posted the entire thing online for all to enjoy.

So basically nothing is something...

[shunyadragon]

So basically nothing is something...

As Vilenkin, Krauss, Guth and Hawking propose this is the nature of the Quantum world, Quantum nothing is something.

[seer]

As Vilenkin, Krauss, Guth and Hawking propose this is the nature of the Quantum world, Quantum nothing is something.

Again Shuny, stop lying, that is not what Vilenkin says. Lurch's link was about empty space, the nothing in empty space is something. Vilenkin's nothing is no space, with only the laws of physics.

because the nothing that we were referring to here is the absence of matter, space and time. That is as close to nothing as you can get, but what is still required here is the laws of physics. So the laws of physics should still be there, and they are definitely not nothing.

http://now.tufts.edu/articles/beginning-was-beginning

[One Bad Pig]

Again Shuny, stop lying, that is not what Vilenkin says. Lurch's link was about empty space, the nothing in empty space is something. Vilenkin's nothing is no space, with only the laws of physics.

I don't think you should accuse Shuny of lying. It's far more likely he misunderstood what's being argued.

[shunyadragon]

I don't think you should accuse Shuny of lying. It's far more likely he misunderstood what's being argued.

I understand what is being argued and yes, I am not lying. Vilenkin, Krauss, Guth and Hawking all consider the Quantum nothing to be without time, space and matter except for the momentary existence of virtual particles. The Quantum vacuum is a result of Natural Law. They all agree that our universe and all possible universes spontaneously begin from this Quantum nothing. They all agree that total energy = 0 in our universe, all possible universes and possible multiverses, and Quantum nothing. the Quantum nothing and Natural Laws are the cause of the behavior of the Quantum world of nothing, and no other cause is necessary. They all agree that the Quantum nothing is something, and not absolutely nothing.

The video presented by Lurch confirms this.