Covid-19 death toll equals and will likely exceed the 1918-1919 flu pandemic

[shunyadragon]

Comparing the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines to flu vaccines is very difficult, because of the very different technology, virus behavior in the population, and the lack of good comparable research between the performance of the vaccines.The new technology and approach to producing vaccines may be the advantage. These technologies may make flu vaccines better in the future.

[cite=https://www.healthline.com/health-news/think-the-covid-19-vaccine-isnt-good-enough-it-may-be-more-effective-than-the-flu-shot#How-effective-the-shots-are-at-preventing-disease].

How effective the shots are at preventing disease

The flu shots’ effectiveness fluctuates every year depending on how precisely the shots match the circulating strains, but health experts estimate it ranges from 40 to 60 percent, depending on the season.
Tan says researchers don’t conduct clinical trials on the flu shots anymore, so any recent evidence on the flu shot’s efficacy comes from looking at flu activity trends in the population.
That data suggests that “influenza vaccine not only prevents 40 to 60 against primary disease, but it’s also around that same level in terms of preventing hospitalization and severe illness in both kids and adults,” Tan said.

A study published in Pediatrics in 2017 found that the flu vaccine cuts the risk of death in healthy children by about two-thirds, or 65 percent.
And according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)Trusted Source, a person hospitalized with influenza is 2 to 5 timesTrusted Source more likely to die if they’re unvaccinated.
Even when the flu vaccine isn’t a strong match against the circulating strains, it still confers some degree of protection.

“The greatest benefit is probably reducing the likelihood of someone getting severe influenza, reducing duration of flu symptoms, and limiting spread to others,” said Dr. David Hirschwerk, an attending infectious diseases physician at Northwell Health in Manhasset, New York.The coronavirus vaccines range from about 66 to 95 percent effective at preventing symptomatic disease. All of the vaccines appear to be 100 percent effective at protecting people against hospitalization and death.

“The COVID vaccines, so far, have turned out to be more effective than the flu vaccine, not only in actually preventing COVID but notably in limiting cases of severe COVID,” Hirschwerk said.

Emerging evidence suggests efficacy may wane against certain variants. “We already know that the variant from the UK is a bit less responsive to the vaccine, but it remains very likely that severe COVID can still be mitigated by the current vaccines and even if not perfect, that would remain a substantial victory for public health,” Hirschwerk said.

Many of the vaccine developers are already working on booster shots that specifically target emerging variants. The ease with which the shots can be modified is one of the key benefits of the new technologies used in the COVID-19 vaccines.
Modifying vaccines is much harder with the traditional technologies used. “It’s very hard to react and make changes to variations. We struggle with it every year with flu,” Tan said.

What about preventing transmission?

According to Tan, scientists evaluate a vaccine’s ability to prevent transmission by looking at the amount of virus in people who’ve been vaccinated.

“The general feeling with flu vaccine is that it does prevent transmission,” Tan said.


That said, even though it’s thought the flu shot can significantly reduce disease transmission, vaccinated people can still contact influenza and spread it to others. There’s limited data looking at the new coronavirus vaccines’ ability to reduce transmission of COVID-19. One small study from AstraZeneca suggests it may cut the spread by up to 67 percent.

When looking at these vaccines’ ability to curb disease transmission, it’s important to understand that the flu and new coronavirus have different attack rates, Tan says.

COVID-19 has very high attack rates. There are a lot of people who are susceptible because there’s little natural immunity in the population. Also, there’s no widespread vaccination against COVID-19, and there are no antivirals.
With flu, we can reduce transmission with vaccination because there’s a lot of pre-existing immunity in the population. We also have effective influenza antivirals that can lessen the severity of illness, Tan says.

“A lot of people have been exposed to actual flu in the past or have been multiply vaccinated, and every time we vaccinate, we boost [immunity],” he said.

The attack rate of flu compared to COVID-19 is much lower. “The bar is very different,” Tan said.

Could the COVID-19 vaccines change how we vaccinate for the flu?

Tan thinks the vaccination advancements we’ve made during the pandemic will be used to create new vaccines against many other conditions.

The technology could help make existing vaccines, like the flu shot, even better.

“I’m really optimistic that we’re going to see some genuine improvements in flu vaccine as a result of our COVID-19 technology,” Tan said.

The bottom line

Though the coronavirus vaccines and flu shots use distinctly different technologies against two unique viruses, they still, on a basic level, have the same job of teaching our immune system how to recognize and attack a virus. Both sets of shots trigger side effects that include fatigue, chills, and in some cases, a low grade fever. The COVID-19 shots appear to be even more effective at preventing severe disease, along with hospitalization and death. Health experts suspect the vaccine technologies developed during the pandemic will be used to improve existing vaccines such as the flu shot. ]/cite]

[Bill the Cat]

Having had COVID-19 like millions of others DOES NOT make you remotely an expert or even reliable source about the pandemic. I do have an academic background in the science behind the pandemic, and worked as a National Registered Paramedic in hospitals in the past. I have posted references to support my arguments.

And I am in regular communication with a world renown infectious disease specialist. He agrees with me, and he is an expert on infectious diseases.

The way the forum works is you are the one responsible for citing the reliable sources to support your arguments, which you fail to do.

You made a stupid claim about "the unvaccinated" and none of your studies account for the recovered unvaccinated. It's sloppy.

When you fail to do this all you post is meaningless airballs.

When you make imprecise claims, it's you who miss the mark. Fail better.

In favt I am unsure what your opposing argument is????

This virus doesn't care who is vaccinated or not. It still attacks people. Vaccinated people are still getting sick. Vaccinated people are still spreading the virus. People are dying both vaccinated and unvaccinated. To make stupid imprecise claims about "particularly the unvaccinated" is ignoring the copious amounts of data on prior infections and natural immunity.

[shunyadragon]

I have FIRST HAND knowledge Frank. I lived through it and recovered. The studies are there. I'm not your assistant. Find the information yourself.

HAving had COVID-19 like millions of others DOES NOT make you remotely an expert or even reliable source about the pandemic. I do have an academic background in the science behind the pandemic, and worked as a National Registered Paramedic in hospitals in the past. I have posted references to support my arguments.

The way the forum works is you are the one responsible for citing the reliable sources to support your arguments, which you fail to do.. When you fail to do this all you post is meaningless airballs. In favt I am unsure what your opposing argument is????

[Bill the Cat]

I worked at Duke University doing COVID=19 during the pandemic doing COVID-19 testing, patient care, and screening, and now work at an extended care facility involved with COVID-19 testing and problems. I do not have to rely on sisters for my knowledge of the someject.

It remains a fact that you do not respond coherently with references to support your assertions. Just idiot noise like Cow Pokey

I have FIRST HAND knowledge Frank. I lived through it and recovered. The studies are there. I'm not your assistant. Find the information yourself.

[Cow Poke]

Still waiting . . . . for a coherent response to subject of the thread with decent references.

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[shunyadragon]

You know, Shuny, sometimes you can actually make sense and sound intelligent.

Other times, you act like a doofus coming off a 3-day drunk.

Still waiting . . . . for a coherent response to subject of the thread with decent references.

[Cow Poke]

You know, Shuny, sometimes you can actually make sense and sound intelligent.

Other times, you act like a doofus coming off a 3-day drunk.

[shunyadragon]

I wish I was that famous. Dude makes BANK. And some bomb chili too from what I've heard.



I probably know more about the subject than you do Frank. My daughter has done COVID testing for almost 1 1/2 years. We talk. The fact of the matter is that this virus, and especially Delta, is NOT "particularly among the unvaccinated." Multiple studies show the vaccinated are getting it at a decent rate too. But I'm recovered and unvaccinated, so I don't fit neatly into your "particularly among the unvaccinated" statement, so you should either clarify it or expect me to continue to laugh at you.

I worked at Duke University doing COVID=19 during the pandemic doing COVID-19 testing, patient care, and screening, and now work at an extended care facility involved with COVID-19 testing and problems. I do not have to rely on sisters for my knowledge of the someject.

It remains a fact that you do not respond coherently with references to support your assertions. Just idiot noise like Cow Pokey

[shunyadragon]

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[Cow Poke]

Respond coherently and not the bouncy 'rubber blubber' response.

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[Bill the Cat]

Great self portrait!!!!!! That of course reflects your self imposed ignorance on the subject.

I wish I was that famous. Dude makes BANK. And some bomb chili too from what I've heard.

How about some coherent responses and sources to defend your negative assertions.

I probably know more about the subject than you do Frank. My daughter has done COVID testing for almost 1 1/2 years. We talk. The fact of the matter is that this virus, and especially Delta, is NOT "particularly among the unvaccinated." Multiple studies show the vaccinated are getting it at a decent rate too. But I'm recovered and unvaccinated, so I don't fit neatly into your "particularly among the unvaccinated" statement, so you should either clarify it or expect me to continue to laugh at you.

[shunyadragon]

Bovine scat.

What is "incredible" is that they are considered at all "effective," when there are still recommendations that the vaxees need to be protected from the Great Unvaxed.

Again . . . a meaningless derogatory response without substance is your modus operandi.

[shunyadragon]

Try the "I'm rubber, you're glue" one, Shuny.

Respond coherently and not the bouncy 'rubber blubber' response.

[Cow Poke]

Great self portrait!!!!!! That of course reflects your self imposed ignorance on the subject.

How about some coherent responses and sources to defend your negative assertions.

Try the "I'm rubber, you're glue" one, Shuny.

[shunyadragon]

Kevin_lol.gif

Great self portrait!!!!!! That of course reflects your self imposed ignorance on the subject.

How about some coherent responses and sources to defend your negative assertions.