Quantum zero-point energy and time

[shunyadragon]

There have been a number of questions concerning the relationship of time and the Quantum World. I found this site which gave a good explanation for this relationship.

Source: http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

Quantum mechanics predicts the existence of what are usually called ''zero-point'' energies for the strong, the weak and the electromagnetic interactions, where ''zero-point'' refers to the energy of the system at temperature T=0, or the lowest quantized energy level of a quantum mechanical system. Although the term ''zero-point energy'' applies to all three of these interactions in nature, customarily (and hereafter in this article) it is used in reference only to the electromagnetic case.

In conventional quantum physics, the origin of zero-point energy is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which states that, for a moving particle such as an electron, the more precisely one measures the position, the less exact the best possible measurement of its momentum (mass times velocity), and vice versa. The least possible uncertainty of position times momentum is specified by Planck's constant, h. A parallel uncertainty exists between measurements involving time and energy (and other so-called conjugate variables in quantum mechanics). This minimum uncertainty is not due to any correctable flaws in measurement, but rather reflects an intrinsic quantum fuzziness in the very nature of energy and matter springing from the wave nature of the various quantum fields. This leads to the concept of zero-point energy.

Zero-point energy is the energy that remains when all other energy is removed from a system. This behaviour is demonstrated by, for example, liquid helium. As the temperature is lowered to absolute zero, helium remains a liquid, rather than freezing to a solid, owing to the irremovable zero-point energy of its atomic motions. (Increasing the pressure to 25 atmospheres will cause helium to freeze.)

A harmonic oscillator is a useful conceptual tool in physics. Classically a harmonic oscillator, such as a mass on a spring, can always be brought to rest. However a quantum harmonic oscillator does not permit this. A residual motion will always remain due to the requirements of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, resulting in a zero-point energy, equal to 1/2 hf, where f is the oscillation frequency.

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[rwatts]

There have been a number of questions concerning the relationship of time and the Quantum World. I found this site which gave a good explanation for this relationship.

Source: http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

Quantum mechanics predicts the existence of what are usually called ''zero-point'' energies for the strong, the weak and the electromagnetic interactions, where ''zero-point'' refers to the energy of the system at temperature T=0, or the lowest quantized energy level of a quantum mechanical system. Although the term ''zero-point energy'' applies to all three of these interactions in nature, customarily (and hereafter in this article) it is used in reference only to the electromagnetic case.

In conventional quantum physics, the origin of zero-point energy is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which states that, for a moving particle such as an electron, the more precisely one measures the position, the less exact the best possible measurement of its momentum (mass times velocity), and vice versa. The least possible uncertainty of position times momentum is specified by Planck's constant, h. A parallel uncertainty exists between measurements involving time and energy (and other so-called conjugate variables in quantum mechanics). This minimum uncertainty is not due to any correctable flaws in measurement, but rather reflects an intrinsic quantum fuzziness in the very nature of energy and matter springing from the wave nature of the various quantum fields. This leads to the concept of zero-point energy.

Zero-point energy is the energy that remains when all other energy is removed from a system. This behaviour is demonstrated by, for example, liquid helium. As the temperature is lowered to absolute zero, helium remains a liquid, rather than freezing to a solid, owing to the irremovable zero-point energy of its atomic motions. (Increasing the pressure to 25 atmospheres will cause helium to freeze.)

A harmonic oscillator is a useful conceptual tool in physics. Classically a harmonic oscillator, such as a mass on a spring, can always be brought to rest. However a quantum harmonic oscillator does not permit this. A residual motion will always remain due to the requirements of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, resulting in a zero-point energy, equal to 1/2 hf, where f is the oscillation frequency.

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I have a lot more zero point energies these days.

[37818]

Yep, finite and temporal - 'Quantum mechanics predicts the existence of what are usually called ''zero-point'' . . .'

[Kbertsche]

There have been a number of questions concerning the relationship of time and the Quantum World. I found this site which gave a good explanation for this relationship.

http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

And your pont is ...?

Are you trying to claim that we can somehow extract this "zero point energy" to have an unlimited energy source? If so, I disagree with you. This is a crackpot idea that doesn't understand the meaning of "zero-point".

Or are you trying to cast doubt on the popular notion that the Big Bang is the result of a "quantum fluctuation"? If so, I agree with you. Per Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, for a "quantum fluctuation" to exist for 13.7 billion years requires the total energy of the fluctuation (the universe) to be exactly zero, to many, many decimals. The conflicts with the idea of "zero-point energy".

[shunyadragon]

Yep, finite and temporal - 'Quantum mechanics predicts the existence of what are usually called ''zero-point'' . . .'

Oh my! You have far too much time on your hands for such idle talk. You need to start with a basic physics course, and start all over again.

[shunyadragon]

And your pont is ...?

Are you trying to claim that we can somehow extract this "zero point energy" to have an unlimited energy source? If so, I disagree with you. This is a crackpot idea that doesn't understand the meaning of "zero-point".

Or are you trying to cast doubt on the popular notion that the Big Bang is the result of a "quantum fluctuation"? If so, I agree with you. Per Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, for a "quantum fluctuation" to exist for 13.7 billion years requires the total energy of the fluctuation (the universe) to be exactly zero, to many, many decimals. The conflicts with the idea of "zero-point energy".

I have no ponts? at present, and no I do not have any particular claims either. There have been questions in a number of threads concerning time in the Quantum world, a number by JimL, and this site is a good starting point for a discussion on the topic. Actually the article is simply factual about the current state of knowledge, and not controversial.

Conflicts? There are many unresolved question concerning the formation of singularities and the resulting universes. If you are genuinely interested read the rest of the article and comment constructively.

[shunyadragon]

I have a lot more zero point energies these days.

If you get enough you can crank up another universe.

[37818]

Yep, finite and temporal - 'Quantum mechanics predicts the existence of what are usually called ''zero-point'' . . .'

Oh my! You have far too much time on your hands for such idle talk. You need to start with a basic physics course, and start all over again.

So zero is not finite. And fluctuations are not changes (time). If you say so.

[Kbertsche]

Conflicts? There are many unresolved question concerning the formation of singularities and the resulting universes. If you are genuinely interested read the rest of the article and comment constructively.

The information in the article that you cited seems to be OK. But two things concern me:
1) the page has a link to a patent which claims to be able to remove energy from the quantum vacuum, which is complete crackpot nonsense.
2) the site is free-lance, not connected to any university or research laboratory. I can't tell whether or not they are trying to push an agenda or a crackpot theory themselves, but I am very suspicious.

My "constructive comment" is that you try to get your physics information from websites that are connected to major universities or research laboratories.

[shunyadragon]

So zero is not finite. And fluctuations are not changes (time). If you say so.

the concept of 'zero-energy' has nothing to do with infinite nor finite. It has to do with the Quantum energy base state in the Quantum world.

As far as the time factor concerning fluctuations. Time is momentary during fluctuations and no time arrow exists as in the space.time relationship of our universe, or any other possible universe.

[shunyadragon]

Next . . .

Source: http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

From this line of reasoning, quantum physics predicts that all of space must be filled with electromagnetic zero-point fluctuations (also called the zero-point field) creating a universal sea of zero-point energy. The density of this energy depends critically on where in frequency the zero-point fluctuations cease. Since space itself is thought to break up into a kind of quantum foam at a tiny distance scale called the Planck scale (10-33 cm), it is argued that the zero point fluctuations must cease at a corresponding Planck frequency (1043 Hz). If that is the case, the zero-point energy density would be 110 orders of magnitude greater than the radiant energy at the center of the Sun.

How could such an enormous energy not be wildly evident? There is one major difference between zero-point electromagnetic radiation and ordinary electromagnetic radiation. Turning again to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle one finds that the lifetime of a given zero-point photon, viewed as a wave, corresponds to an average distance traveled of only a fraction of its wavelength. Such a wave ''fragment'' is somewhat different than an ordinary plane wave and it is difficult to know how to interpret this.

On the other hand, zero-point energy appears to have been directly measured as current noise in a resistively shunted Josephson junction by Koch, van Harlingen and Clarke up to a frequency of about 0.6 Tz

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[37818]

the concept of 'zero-energy' has nothing to do with infinite nor finite.

. . . It has to do with the Quantum energy base state in the Quantum world.

That is finite!

As far as the time factor concerning fluctuations. Time is momentary during fluctuations and no time arrow exists as in the space.time relationship of our universe, or any other possible universe.

Fluctuation are changes - which would define or be defined by both space and time. Otherwise to say there are fluctuations is utter nonsense.

[shunyadragon]

That is finite!

Nothing to do with whether anything is finite nor infinite.

Fluctuation are changes - which would define or be defined by both space and time. Otherwise to say there are fluctuations is utter nonsense.

First, you need to read the reference and cite the reference to present your case. If you can cite another reliable academic scientific reference to make your case please do, but the above is meaningless confusion and not science.

As far as the time factor concerning fluctuations. Time is momentary during fluctuations and no time arrow exists as in the relative space/time continuum relationship of our universe, or any other possible universe. Read the reference again or cite another scientific reference. In the Quantum World T=0.

This is a science topic. Scientific references, please. Further posts like this will be ignored.